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Document title: AIM-120D and the future of Stealth - F-16.net - The Ultimate F-16 Reference
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Printed on: 13 October 2008

Forum: F-22A Raptor

AIM-120D and the future of Stealth



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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 09:56 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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A couple of interesting articles. First, lets start near-term...

Quote:
New AMRAAM Variant Destroys Target During Recent Test

A U.S. Navy F/A-18F Super Hornet fighter aircraft fired the newest variant of Raytheon's Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile May 22 as part of developmental testing.

The AIM-120D AMRAAM passed well within lethal range of the QF-4 target drone. The missile destroyed the target and met all primary test objectives.

"This test is another important milestone on the road to putting the AIM-120D in the hands of the U.S. warfighter," said Col. Scott Rumph, commander of the U.S. Air Force's 328th Armament Systems Group.

"The AIM-120D will enable our men and women in uniform to maintain air superiority, regardless of the threat."

The AIM-120D builds on the combat-proven AMRAAM family of missiles. It offers improved capabilities compared with its predecessor, the AIM-120C7.

"AIM-120D's advanced features offer U.S. aviators a critical advantage in the beyond-visual-range fight," said Jim Knox, Raytheon Missile Systems' AMRAAM program director.

"There is no missile in development or in any air force's inventory that can even come close to matching what the AIM-120D can do."

The AMRAAM family of missiles has been in production for more than 20 years. It is operational with the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army and 33 international customers. More than 16,000 AMRAAMs have been produced. The missile is responsible for nine successful combat intercepts.


The quote that stands out above is, "There is no missile in development or in any air force's inventory that can even come close to matching what the AIM-120D can do." That's a pretty bold statement. It's also open to interpretation. By what it "can do," to what is Knox referring? Range? Reliability? Pk? I wonder how the Meteor folks feel about that statement. If true, then we have a real winner...

The following article is, well, auspicous...

Quote:
Poof! Scientists closer to invisibility cloak

Scientists say they are a step closer to developing materials that could render people and objects invisible.

Researchers have demonstrated for the first time they were able to cloak three-dimensional objects using artificially engineered materials that redirect light around the objects. Previously, they only have been able to cloak very thin two-dimensional objects.

The findings, by scientists at the University of California, Berkeley, led by Xiang Zhang, are to be released later this week in the journals Nature and Science.

The new work moves scientists a step closer to hiding people and objects from visible light, which could have broad applications, including military ones.

People can see objects because they scatter the light that strikes them, reflecting some of it back to the eye. Cloaking uses materials, known as metamaterials, to deflect radar, light or other waves around an object, like water flowing around a smooth rock in a stream.

Metamaterials are mixtures of metal and circuit board materials such as ceramic, Teflon or fiber composite. They are designed to bend visible light in a way that ordinary materials don't. Scientists are trying to use them to bend light around objects so they don't create reflections or shadows.

It differs from stealth technology, which does not make an aircraft invisible but reduces the cross-section available to radar, making it hard to track.

The research was funded in part by the U.S. Army Research Office and the National Science Foundation's Nano-Scale Science and Engineering Center.


If this can work in the visible spectrum, it should be able to work in other wavelengths with different materials. Thus, we can now begin to see (or not) the day when aircraft, ships and tanks will become effectively invisible both to radar and to the naked eye. What that means is that shaping to achieve VLO may soon be a thing of the past. That, and we're seriously screwed if a prospective enemy gets hold of this technology, which they will, eventually...
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 01:54 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Saw a source the other day that gave the AIM-120Ds range as 180km+ and mentioned that it had a dual-pulse motor (which I had NEVER heard before). The first pulse for the semi-ballistic arc and the second pulse to give a bit more energy in the endgame.
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Guysmiley
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 02:07 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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I think they mean dual impulse, two different thrust levels. A high initial boost thrust and a lower sustain thrust.
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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 02:08 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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I would imagine if there is a grain of truth to the 180km+ range that would be under the most ideal of conditions (fired from a Raptor flying at 60k+ feet at Mach 2+ against a closing target). Nonetheless, I believe the 120D will fulfill the Raptor's true potential, making full use of the AESA's unique abilities. One of the problems with active AAMs right now is that, well, they have to go active in the endgame, thereby giving some warning to the target of at least a few seconds wherein ECM and aggressive maneuvering may be able to defeat the missile. However, with the precision and LPI nature of the Raptor's AESA, and the 120D's two-way datalink and GPS, it gives you the ability of guiding the missile much closer to its target before giving it any sort of warning, seeing as how now the missile can go active much closer to the target. Also, it should be noted that the 120D is so advanced that, for the near-future at least, it is not being released for export to anyone, not even the Brits.
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:15 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Guysmiley wrote:
I think they mean dual impulse, two different thrust levels. A high initial boost thrust and a lower sustain thrust.


Nope. dual pulse. A particular burn profile is nothing special (everybody tailors their profile to suit) but a dual pulse motor isn't all that common. The 3rd stage on SM-3 and SRAM are the only two that come to mind.

From AvWeek:

"USAF officials report that performance on the two-way data link and an “enhanced” conformal data link on the front end of the weapon are “satisfactory” and will continue to be reviewed. The weapon also has the ability to maneuver actively at the end of its flight to compensate for evasive tactics used by the target. So there is a possibility that the final motor burn can be cued by the terminal seeker going active or even acquiring the target."


Last edited by sferrin on Aug 11, 2008 - 04:21 PM; edited 1 time in total
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:18 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Obamanite wrote:
I would imagine if there is a grain of truth to the 180km+ range that would be under the most ideal of conditions (fired from a Raptor flying at 60k+ feet at Mach 2+ against a closing target).


The 180km is probably the flight range. Target aspect is irrelevant as 180kms is 180kms. Whether the target is flying towards the missile or away from it it's not going to change the distance the missile is capable of flying. Hitting a target is something else altogether obviously but nobody was talking about that so it's pretty much irrelevant to the discussion.
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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:31 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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You seem like a reasonably intelligent fellow, sferrin, or at least somewhat informed, so I'm surprised that you don't understand that there is a vast difference between a missile's kinematic range and the range at which it can be fired from the target and expect to have a reasonably good chance of hitting it. The AIM-54, for instance, while billed as a 125-mile range weapon, never actually flew 125 miles in any testing. That was the maximum range at which it could be fired from a closing target, which it would eventually strike after the target had flown a considerable distance toward the missile, drastically shortening actual flight distance. Moreover, it is ludicrous to state that there is such a thing as a set "flight range" no matter the conditions. An AMRAAM fired by an F-22 flying at Mach 2+ and at 60k feet will fly much further than one fired by an F-16 at sea level at 300 kts. Pretty elementary stuff, my dear Watson.
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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:35 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Also, a huge difference whether you are firing at a target you expect to maneuver versus a target that will continue flying straight, like many of the Soviet cruise missiles, which were the size of large fighter aircraft, the AIM-54 was expected to intercept. Which is the reason, by the way, that the AIM-54, in USN service, had a godawful Pk versus fighters in operational service, as in, several were fired and not a single missile hit one good goddamned thing, which I'm sure contributed to the F-14's seemingly premature retirement.
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:42 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Obamanite wrote:
You seem like a reasonably intelligent fellow, sferrin, or at least somewhat informed, so I'm surprised that you don't understand that there is a vast difference between a missile's kinematic range and the range at which it can be fired from the target and expect to have a reasonably good chance of hitting it.


I'm surprised you're having trouble understanding the concept of "flight range". Wink How is anything the target could do going to effect how far the missile can fly? How 'bout you get off your high horse and actually read what's being said instead?


Last edited by sferrin on Aug 11, 2008 - 04:46 PM; edited 1 time in total
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:44 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Obamanite wrote:
Also, a huge difference whether you are firing at a target you expect to maneuver versus a target that will continue flying straight, like many of the Soviet cruise missiles, which were the size of large fighter aircraft, the AIM-54 was expected to intercept. Which is the reason, by the way, that the AIM-54, in USN service, had a godawful Pk versus fighters in operational service, as in, several were fired and not a single missile hit one good goddamned thing, which I'm sure contributed to the F-14's seemingly premature retirement.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz You're not saying anything here that everybody doesn't already know. How many times does it need to be pointed out that the 180kms is flight range?
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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 04:55 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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sferrin wrote:
Obamanite wrote:
Also, a huge difference whether you are firing at a target you expect to maneuver versus a target that will continue flying straight, like many of the Soviet cruise missiles, which were the size of large fighter aircraft, the AIM-54 was expected to intercept. Which is the reason, by the way, that the AIM-54, in USN service, had a godawful Pk versus fighters in operational service, as in, several were fired and not a single missile hit one good goddamned thing, which I'm sure contributed to the F-14's seemingly premature retirement.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz You're not saying anything here that everybody doesn't already know. How many times does it need to be pointed out that the 180kms is flight range?


Flight range fired under what conditions and at what target??? There is no such thing as "flight range," period. Like a car's MPG is divided between city and highway driving, and immensely variable in between.
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Obamanite
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 05:01 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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sferrin wrote:
How is anything the target could do going to effect how far the missile can fly?


So you don't understand that there is a difference between an AMRAAM flying, say, 100 km and arriving at a point in space at, say, Mach 2.5 and it flying 150 km and arriving at that point in space at, say, 200 kts.??? Sure, if launched from high enough and fast enough I'm sure the AMRAAM can go 500 kms and hit the ground at terminal velocity. Real effective as an intercept weapon at that point. No wonder checksixx often goes ballistic on your amazing incapacity to accept your intellectual limitations...
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 05:14 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Obamanite wrote:
Flight range fired under what conditions and at what target??? There is no such thing as "flight range," period. Like a car's MPG is divided between city and highway driving, and immensely variable in between.



Of course there is. Think about it for a while, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
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sferrin
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 05:21 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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Obamanite wrote:
sferrin wrote:
How is anything the target could do going to effect how far the missile can fly?


So you don't understand that there is a difference between an AMRAAM flying, say, 100 km and arriving at a point in space at, say, Mach 2.5 and it flying 150 km and arriving at that point in space at, say, 200 kts.??? Sure, if launched from high enough and fast enough I'm sure the AMRAAM can go 500 kms and hit the ground at terminal velocity.


Careful there Obamanite ( Rolling Eyes ) your "intellectual limitations" are on display. 1. A projectile traveling fast enough to cover 180kms isn't going to be coming down at 200 kts. 2. You forgot about the 2nd burn pulse. (That short attention span is a bitch isn't it? Probably why you can't see past Obama's flash.)


Obamanite wrote:
Real effective as an intercept weapon at that point. No wonder checksixx often goes ballistic on your amazing incapacity to accept your intellectual limitations...


LOL another poster described you best:

"He is a modern example of what Shakespear was talking about when he said:

"To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing"
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Guysmiley
PostPosted: Aug 11, 2008 - 06:29 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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sferrin wrote:
Guysmiley wrote:
I think they mean dual impulse, two different thrust levels. A high initial boost thrust and a lower sustain thrust.


Nope. dual pulse. A particular burn profile is nothing special (everybody tailors their profile to suit) but a dual pulse motor isn't all that common. The 3rd stage on SM-3 and SRAM are the only two that come to mind.

From AvWeek:

"USAF officials report that performance on the two-way data link and an “enhanced” conformal data link on the front end of the weapon are “satisfactory” and will continue to be reviewed. The weapon also has the ability to maneuver actively at the end of its flight to compensate for evasive tactics used by the target. So there is a possibility that the final motor burn can be cued by the terminal seeker going active or even acquiring the target."


Oh wow, that is a different concept. Very interesting. So it can "coast" until acquisition, then lay on the gas for terminal guidance.
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