Forum: F-22A Raptor

Can someone answer my freakin qustion?

Question: what is the difference between the Mongo and Kulbit?

Correct Sferrin....one is simply a post stall loop to put it simply.

So which is which? Also... why doesn't the F-22A do a Kulbit?

One demonstration will be the "Kulbit" (which means "circle" in Russian), a high angle-of-attack (AOA) "Cobra" pitch-up, followed by a low-airspeed, looplike vertical rotation (below). Avariation on the Cobra maneuver first demonstrated by the Sukhoi Su-27, this "somersault" combines rapid deceleration with a full 360-deg., tight-diameter "loop."

From a horizontal attitude, a pilot rapidly pitches the nose up, using the integrated fly-by-wire flight control and TVC systems to command high pitch rates [positions 1-5]. Altitude gain is minimal, and airspeed drops quickly as AOA reaches 90 deg.; the aircraft is still moving horizontally. With airspeed below 50 kt., the aircraft goes inverted and the nose falls through the horizontal [6-8]. As airspeed increases, the pilot pulls through the nose-down vertical position and back to horizontal, accelerating in the same direction as he started the maneuver [9-12].

This modified Cobra could force an adversary to overshoot, positioning the Su-37 for a missile shot.

<a href="http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/su37/su37display.html">Source</a>

The "Kulbitinscy" is an aerial maneuver developed by Russian pilots, in which the aircraft performs an incredibly tight diametered loop (often not much wider than the length of the aircraft itself).

The Kulbit drastically decelerates the aircraft and could theoretically be used to cause a pursuant aircraft to overshoot its target. The maneuver is closely related to the famous "Pugachev's Cobra" maneuver, but the Kulbit completes the loop that the Cobras almost immediately cuts off.

- Notice the mongo flip is just a screwed up kulbit.

- The Kulbit is a harder to execute maneouvre then a Mongo Flip which is essentially a name created so USAF pundits don't have to say "the F-22A can almost perform a Kulbit".

[...] Jacob [an F-15 pilot - J.J.] circled above the Raptor as Anger [Maj. Shawn "Rage" Anger, an F-22 instructor with the 43rd FS at Tyndall AFB, Fla. - J.J.] put the fighter through several maneuvers. He illustrated three key tactical moves - the J-Turn, high-alpha turn and the classic, Russian Cobra. There are times during an air-to-air engagement when any of them could be employed, but the J-Turn is used more than the Cobra, says Lt. Col. Wade Tolliver, commander of the 27th Fighter Sqdn.

Roughly, the J-Turn begins with the nose of the F-22 pointed up. Then, at high alpha (angle of attack), the rudder is kicked and the nose swings until pointed downhill. F-22 pilots describe a flight path mimicking the shape of a candy cane. The J-Turn is a vertical maneuver used to quickly reverse the aircraft´s direction using a very small turn radius.

After a planned stall, Anger´s Raptor pivoted through a rapid-minimum, 180-deg. J-Turn at 250 kt. in maximum afterburner with full aft stick. It´s also known as the "Herbst Maneuver", after Wolfgang Herbst, a German proponent of using post-stall flight in air-to-air combat.

The aircraft pulled into a 60-70-deg. bank, nose high, with roughly a 60-deg. angle of attack. Anger applied full stick and pro-rudder, turning into the aircraft´s roll. The Raptor´s nose yawed down into the vertical.

For the second maneuver, Anger pulled the Raptor into a high-alpha loop, powering again to 250 kt. He pulled 3-4g to about 180 kt. in the pure vertical, reaching 20-30 deg. past the vertical with full aft stick. The AOA increased beyond 60-70-deg. alpha as the upward motion slowed. Normally a rapid pitch rate would stop the aircraft´s nose, but thrust vectoring carried the F-22´s nose back over the top, completing the loop.

In contrast, the legendary Cobra maneuver is done from the horizontal plane, and the nose pitches up past vertical and returns to the horizontal after a pronounced deceleration.

To force an opponent to overshoot, Anger yanked the Raptor into a dynamic, nose-high attitude made possible by brute engine power - a maneuver that Russian Su-27 pilots introduced to air show crowds. First, Anger slowed to 250 kt., pushed both throttles to the military power detent, then pulled the control stick to its full-aft position. The Raptor´s nose pitched up to a 60-70-deg. attitude, so the fighter´s belly remained aligned with the flight path, creating enough drag to immediately slow the aircraft substantially. He then pushed the stick full forward to snap the Raptor´s nose back to level flight.

<a href="http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/documents/aviation_week_010807.pdf">Source</a>

- My guess is that Max will fly the 6 pass show he flew this weekend at Tyndall; a show that did not contain Mongos, Flips, etc. I would further guess that it will be a month or so before the routine changes.

- It will be longer than that before it changes from a 6-pass demo. Remember, the "demo" isn't scheduled until 2008. A long shot may have the demo later this year, but don't hold your breath.

- Well talking with one of the pilots at Luke AFB Airshow on Sunday.. He mentioned the demo ofthe F-22 is pretty amazing.. Ther are some maneauvers that they have not signed off on yet, but they know they can be done....

- The "6 pass" demo will be flown throughout 2007, with small additions to the routine being made throughout the year. I think it's safe to assume that these first half dozen shows or so won't see much change from the planned 6 pass/manuever routine. But by the time Nellis comes around, the routine should see many new manuevers.

2008 should be totally different. This year will be the "warm up" so to speak for the real routine, the FULL demo, which begins next season and will be a much, much more comprehensive demo that includes all of those "cobra" and "mongo" manuevers plus much more, from the sound of it.

For Point Mugu this weekend, we'll see some abrupt pitch ups, limited thrust vectoring manuevers, high alpha, and tight, tight min. radius turns. The takeoff is supposedly pretty amazing, too - similar to Blue Angel 6 (low transition, and pull back to vertical).

- Airborne in about 1800'...accelerate to 280 by show center and then pitch up to about 80 degrees. Climb to 2500 and push over at about 75-80 knots and accelerate to about .94M for the high speed.

This is a copy of Max's card with speeds and altitudes removed.