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Enthusiast Joined: Jan 25, 2008 Posts: 46 Status: Offline

Who thinks they should get them and why?
I personally think they should get them, the F-22 is a awesome aircraft (The Viper still rules btw Wink

). And the commander is right, as a commander you always need to try to get the best equipment for your troops.

Tim

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I personally think that the raptor is just too pricey for a guard unit. Correct me if I'm wrong...but the only guard units that operate the F-22 are attached to active units like at Langley, etc. I think guard units should look for an affordable airframe with plenty of versatility, like the F-35, so they can stretch their dollar a little further. That's why so many guard units have the viper...it's relatively cheap and very effective.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

Correct, the only Guard unit operating the Raptor right now is the Virginia Air Guard, now based at Langley. They can put in a request for the jets, with reasoning, but the Air Force has already road mapped basing for most aircraft. I think the request could generate a stronger push for more airframes with the powers that be, if the wording is right.

Be careful what you wish for regarding F-22s. No ANG unit is gonna get 'em without going to Associate Wing status and that isn't good for the guard unit. Rumour has it that the Langley AD toads won't even let the VaANG fly their jets on ANG drill weekends. And ALL the jets there say "FF" on the tails; NONE say "VA". Only one has "192FW" painted on its tail. So much for unit pride...

If I were an ANG F-16 unit commander I'd be lobbying for F-35s.

SixerViper wrote:

Be careful what you wish for regarding F-22s. No ANG unit is gonna get 'em without going to Associate Wing status and that isn't good for the guard unit. Rumour has it that the Langley AD toads won't even let the VaANG fly their jets on ANG drill weekends. And ALL the jets there say "FF" on the tails; NONE say "VA". Only one has "192FW" painted on its tail. So much for unit pride...

If I were an ANG F-16 unit commander I'd be lobbying for F-35s.

I agree

ACMIguy wrote:

SixerViper wrote:

If I were an ANG F-16 unit commander I'd be lobbying for F-35s.

I agree

Three...

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

SixerViper wrote:

And ALL the jets there say "FF" on the tails; NONE say "VA". Only one has "192FW" painted on its tail. So much for unit pride...

If I were an ANG F-16 unit commander I'd be lobbying for F-35s.

We've already covered in another thread that "FF" is a base code, nothing more. I'm sure the VA ANG folks have plenty of unit pride regardless of what is on the jets. I do agree on the F-35 idea though...the chances are MUCH higher in that respect.

I don't see the USAF getting many more F-22's past the currently projected 183 aircraft. So, all I can say to Oregon ANG is "good luck"! Doh

So, I guess that makes me number four.........one more vote for the F-35 Lightning! Not Worthy

You guys already forgot that the Hawaii ANG is slated to receive F-22s and the active duty squadron will be the associate unit ... while Langley and Elmendorf jets belong to the active duty unit and the ang/reserve are the associate unit at Hickam it will be the opposite.. the jets belong to the guard while the active duty "borrows" them out.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

Nope, I don't think anyone forgot that...

Hi, 16.net is the best, glad to be here.. (I'm nyetnonnein on YT, btw)

Wow, now the F-22 is going to replace F-16s and F-117s on top of F-15s? Someone better start cloning Raptors.

To offer a solution to the base commander's conundrum though.. given that F-35s for him might be another 6-7 yrs away, how about 'lobby' to lease new Block 60, or same configuartion as India's requirements, which could be sold abroad later?

geogen wrote:

given that F-35s for him might be another 6-7 yrs away, how about 'lobby' to lease new Block 60, or same configuartion as India's requirements, which could be sold abroad later?

The USAF/ANG/Res has no infrastructure/logistics for the F-16E/F Vipers. E/F have almost all new systems, and an engine not procured by the US DoD. Big No No

A better option would be leasing C/D Block 50/52+ which seem to be more the flavor being sold at LM. Current infrastructure/logistics are in the system to support these aircraft and engines for decades to come.

Block 52+ would be the best bet for follow-on sales. Most FMS countries have purchased the 52+ lately and would be ripe to pick up some "slightly used" Vipers in say 10-12 years... Two Cents

BUT; The USAF won't buy (or lease) any "legacy fighters" as they may cut into the Raptor / Lightening II budget. Slap

Block 60 jets are rather "special"; United Arab Emirates paid for the cost to develop the aircraft, and purchased 80 which is a rather limited number compared to around 1000 Block 50/52 Vipers. Rolling Eyes

Sorry, but the USAF and USN need to forget about purchasing more Super Hornet or Vipers. The future is the F-22 and F-35. Buying more 4th Generation Types just increases the cost of the latter two! If, anything more Raptors need to be purchased in the short-term and Lightning Productions needs to be accelerated! Salute

Thanks for informative reply Engine guy. Corsair, I hear ya. But... IMO the costs of F-35 and/or F-22 will increase without any regard to how few or no new legacy procurement at all. In life you pay taxes, die and costs of fighters increase. In fact, for argument sake it could be an incentive and healthy, for future manufacture of aircraft models under better management/planning, etc, if USAF today started to lobby for FEWER F-35 e.g., and requested investment for say, new block 60/XL infrastructure/logistics to incorporate such interim fighter upgrades as a result of delays and unknowns of costs and congressional support for JSF numbers! E.G. Latest report was $1 trillion estimate now for total US-portion of F-35 program costs. Something is going to give soon.

So just a thought I'm throwing out, and I truly don't know what I'm talking about, just feel I get lucky once and awhile going with my gut, you know On Topic

<--------- But at least I try to!!

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Oregon ANG Lobbies For F-22