Forum: F-22A Raptor

Spartan-120 wrote:

toan wrote:

Combat Aircraft, 2007, May

Raptor Flag, report by Maj Lawrence Spinetta, USAF

1. Thrust of F119-PW100 today: 39,000 Ib class.

2. Supercruise speed of Raptor: 1.72 Mach.

3. Kill record of 27th FS F-22A in Northern Edge Exercise, 2006: 241-to-2

4. Exchange ratio of 94th FS F-22A in Red Flag Exercise, 2007: 36 : 1 (The Red force used "Unlimited Fighter Works", some Raptors were killed after they had run out of their missiles).

5. During the exercise, a F-22A was once encountered with three F-16 in WVR. After the former had killed two of the laters, the Raptor and the 3rd F-16 killed each other in a mutual kill.

Numbers three and four are actually backwards. The Raptor went to Red Flag first, then Northern Edge/Red Flag Alaska second. The Raptor went one-oh-eight to zip agaist the Red Force at Red Flag Alaska.

As I recall, the other Raptor lost at Red Flag was lost in a mutual kill with a HOBS-equipped F-16, after bagging two other HOBs-equipped F-16s WVR. I don't know for certain if those aircraft were HOBS-equipped, but I've seen pictures of HOBS-equipped Aggressors taken at approximately the same time as the F-22's participation at Red Flag.

Any body know what the Eagle's final score was at the end of its first Red Flag?

As far as I've read, the Raptor went to Red Flag after going to Northern Edge. The Northern Edge record stated there I think is the total record of the F-22 equipped Wing (The F-22 was working in concert with F-15's). The Raptor didn't lose in that excersise. Apparently 2 Raptors "died" in Red Flag - one got bounced from behind by a regenerating Red fighter and the other one as you described.

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On further searching, you may be right about the order of events. But you got the kill tallies wrong. The 241-2 score was from Red Flag. The Raptor's score at the Summer '06 Northern Edge was 144-0.

how did the aggressor manage to get the kill? did he lock the raptor with sidewinder or gunned him down? is it known?

That would teach future Raptor pilots a lesson or two.

Anyway, why do Red Force aggressors get to regenerate? Is it because they're outnumbered by Blue Force fighters or just to simulate a numerically superior enemy?

Skyhigh,

Question one. Yes, typically.
Question two. Yes.

From a layman's perspective, the Raptor's record as a nearly invincible killing machine has ironically contributed to the decision to cap production at 187.. or at least made it easier for the plane's detractors to defend stopping production. When you put up such incredible kill ratios, the simple mind would probably think that 187 are more than enough. Such a shame.

A least three times, maybe four, of that number would be needed to fight a Sukhoi-equipped adversary.

skyhigh wrote:

A least three times, maybe four, of that number would be needed to fight a Sukhoi-equipped adversary.

Why?

popcorn wrote:

skyhigh wrote:

A least three times, maybe four, of that number would be needed to fight a Sukhoi-equipped adversary.

Why?

Because if that little mathematical soundbite isn't true, there's no chance they will ever make more F-22's? Wink

Currently, there are more Flankers than Raptors, total numbers.

I guess about an 8: 1 ratio, i.e. 8 Flankers (regardless of variant) for every 1 Raptor.

It's the only non-Western fighter that comes the closest to the Raptor.

skyhigh wrote:

I guess about an 8: 1 ratio, i.e. 8 Flankers (regardless of variant) for every 1 Raptor.

Misson ready? Nope. All at once airborne? Nope.

skyhigh wrote:

It's the only non-Western fighter that comes the closest to the Raptor.

Poor logic. The Raptor is not the only Western fighter that can match and exceed the Sukhois, any model.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22 loss at Red Flag