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Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

As already known, the F-22 Raptor flew in its first Red Flag exercise that started February 3, 2007, at Nellis AFB, Nevada. According to USAF news reports, the 94th FS "Hat in the Ring" ("lo-viz"-marked as "SPADS" on their finbands), 1st FW (ACC), Langley AFB, Virginia, deployed 14 F-22s and 197 Airmen to participate in this exercise. Current 94th FS commander is Lt. Col. Dirk Smith.

F-22 Raptors from 94th FS at Langley AFB, Va., are parked on the flightline during Red Flag Feb. 6th 2007 at Nellis AFB, Nev. The exercise sharpens aircrews' warfighting skills in realistic combat situations. The aircraft are flying missions day and night at the nearby Nevada Test and Training Range where they simulate an air war. The Air Force and Navy, along with Australia and the United Kingdom militaries, are participating in the exercise. This is the first deployment to Red Flag for the 94th FS with F-22s.

<a href="http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070206-F-6911G-201.JPG">hi-res version</a>

But please take a closer look! In reality, this picture clearly shows (from left) 03046, 03041, 04073, 04068 and 04075. And according at least to my own archives, 03046 and 03041 were originally delivered to the 27th FS "Fightin´ Eagles", also part of the 1st FW.

Also identified as deployed for Red Flag by USAF photos are 04069 and 04080, both from the 94th FS.

Anybody who can/will us update in case of the entire Red Flag F-22 fighter package?

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F-22A had faced the aggressor forces represent the most lethal threat friendly forces would ever face on earth, and then killed them all.

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Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

Latest related ACC feature: <a href="news_article2199.html">Raptors wield 'unfair' advantage at Red Flag</a>

Related news story "<a href="http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041725">Raptor debuts at Red Flag, dominates skies</a>" (February 20)

You can also watch the current top ACC video "<a href="http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070221-232.wmv">Raptors return from Red Flag</a>".

Please note: Meanwhile, we adopted this very important ACC feature to our F-22 Raptor News section. In consequence, the full text - partially quoted by idesof in this topic - is removed from my original post.

J.J. wrote:

"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me."

I love that! That's something that hasn't been stressed enough: even if you can "theoretically" see the Raptor in your radar, good luck getting any sort of lock on it. Further, here is an Eagle driver talking about not beeing able to "see" it within visual range, and his mount has one of the most powerful fighter radars in the world. As it stands right now, you've probably got a better shot of spotting the Raptor visually than through any sort of electronic means and that, I must say, is utterly amazing.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1035 Status: Offline

In reference to a post above about tail numbers...it's possible that they took some 27th jets...Check

with one squadron deployed to an AEF, the remaining squadron jets and crews typically gets folded into the squadron left at home into a "supersquadron". we used to call it a "rainbow squadron" but you can probably figure out why that term is no longer in vogue.

anyways, all jets/pilots in a supersquadron are usually fair game to fill the daily flying schedule--including bad deal deployments to Nellis! Smile

Enthusiast Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 74 Status: Offline

JJ and all,

The Raptors deployed to Nellis are:

03-041, 03-045, 03-046, 04-067 marked 94FS, 04-068, 04-069, 04-072, 04-073, 04-075, 04-080, 04-081, 04-082, 04-083, 04-085.

Regards

Mark

Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

Many thanks for posting the entire "Red Flag" Raptor fighter package, raameagle! Thumb

Sounds like the Raptor is worth the pretty penny. This is really good PR for the Raptor.

That is exactly why in my opinion all those F-22 verses threads are quite pointless, particularly those discussing WVR combat with the Flanker series.

Obi

Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

To idesof, Lurch and Obi_Offiah: Yeah! At least from my personal viewpoint, you are absolutely right, guys! And I fully share your opinions.

So I think, all of you read the F-16.net article "The F-22 learns how to play well with others" by Harold C. Hutchison - http://www.f-16.net/news_article2196.html - originally posted in the F-22 Forum by idesof via strategypage.com (If I remember right).

But some more interesting is a news feature "F-22 Combat Ready" in "Aviation Week & Space Technology" (January 8, 2007), provided as free downloadable PDF file by Lockheed Martin´s official F-22 Team website www.f22-raptor.com

The authors are David A. Fulghum and Michael J. Fabey. As part of the research for this series of articles on the F-22, Fabey flew in the back seat of an F-15D while the Eagle and Raptor pilots demonstrated their aircraft´s capabilities in the air-to-air ranges at Tyndall AFB, Florida.

In addition to the latest ACC feature above, that should be a "Must Read" for all people who will discuss about the Raptor.

PDF link: http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/documen ... 010807.pdf

J.J. wrote:

To idesof, Lurch and Obi_Offiah: Yeah! At least from my personal viewpoint, you are absolutely right, guys! And I fully share your opinions.

So I think, all of you read the F-16.net article "The F-22 learns how to play well with others" by Harold C. Hutchison - http://www.f-16.net/news_article2196.html - originally posted in the F-22 Forum by idesof via strategypage.com (If I remember right).

But some more interesting is a news feature "F-22 Combat Ready" in "Aviation Week & Space Technology" (January 8, 2007), provided as free downloadable PDF file by Lockheed Martin´s official F-22 Team website www.f22-raptor.com

The authors are David A. Fulghum and Michael J. Fabey. As part of the research for this series of articles on the F-22, Fabey flew in the back seat of an F-15D while the Eagle and Raptor pilots demonstrated their aircraft´s capabilities in the air-to-air ranges at Tyndall AFB, Florida.

In addition to the latest ACC feature above, that should be a "Must Read" for all people who will discuss about the Raptor.

PDF link: http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/documen ... 010807.pdf

Hey, JJ, thanks a lot for that link! Only thing that annoyed me is that the text in page 4 cuts off! And yet, beggars can't be choosers, and the AvWeek article was certainly instructive (I had read a shorter version of it, I believe, in the latest Code One).

Couple of things that I found intriguing: at one point the author writes that the Raptor's thrust-to-weight ration is close to one-to-one. That cannot be. That would have to mean that the Raptor would be weighing in at 70,000 lbs. AT LEAST! Even if the Raptor weighed as much as 40,000 lbs. empty, add to that 25,000 lbs. of fuel (closer to 22,000 lbs is the accepted figure), you still only get to 65,000 lbs. maximum fully fueled, while the six Amraams and two Sidewinders only add an additional 2,500 lbs. Moreover, as previously discussed elsewhere, it is common knowledge that the F-119 delivers significantly more than its 35,000 lbs. thrust "class". Also, I think it has also been substantially discussed that the Raptor generates a substantial amount of body lift beyond the lift produced by its wings. At any rate, the author's calculations in that part of the article seem to be a little off, to say the least.

On a positive note, more than once the articles refer to the Raptor's infrared sensors and its ability to off-load infrared sensor data. Did AvWeek just AvLeak? Last I knew, the only infrared sensors the Raptor had right now were its missile-warning doohickeys (which can be seen in front and behind the cockpit as well as underside behind the front wheel well). I know that space has been provided for an IRST sensor eventually, when funding allows, but has any such sensor actually been fielded?

Now, one also has to look forward to the day when funding will allow not just the IRST and, finally, the AIM-9X and HMCS, but also the side-mounted AESA arrays. When that day comes, the Raptor will truly become a mini-AWACS, as it will be able to circle the battlespace without pointing its nose toward the threat and hence having to get closer to it than it absolutely has to (which, after all your missiles are expended, you don't want to do).

There is much more to say and to discuss about this amazing plane, and one can only hope that Congress sees and hears these reports early and often so that this bird can be kept in production for at least the next decade and beyond. Perhaps it is a sign that I am an eternal optimist, but I just can't imagine Congress ever deciding to stop production of this aircraft so long as it continues to so thoroughly dominate the opposition. In the end, my sense is we'll get closer to the original 750-aircraft requirement than people think. Why? Because it is becoming amply clear that the Raptor is not really a fighter at all. The beast is nothing less than a freaking battlecruiser!!!

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 23, 2006 Posts: 29 Status: Offline

idesof wrote:

Hey, JJ, thanks a lot for that link! Only thing that annoyed me is that the text in page 4 cuts off! And yet, beggars can't be choosers, and the AvWeek article was certainly instructive (I had read a shorter version of it, I believe, in the latest Code One).

Couple of things that I found intriguing: at one point the author writes that the Raptor's thrust-to-weight ration is close to one-to-one. That cannot be. That would have to mean that the Raptor would be weighing in at 70,000 lbs. AT LEAST! Even if the Raptor weighed as much as 40,000 lbs. empty, add to that 25,000 lbs. of fuel (closer to 22,000 lbs is the accepted figure), you still only get to 65,000 lbs. maximum fully fueled, while the six Amraams and two Sidewinders only add an additional 2,500 lbs. Moreover, as previously discussed elsewhere, it is common knowledge that the F-119 delivers significantly more than its 35,000 lbs. thrust "class". Also, I think it has also been substantially discussed that the Raptor generates a substantial amount of body lift beyond the lift produced by its wings. At any rate, the author's calculations in that part of the article seem to be a little off, to say the least.

I wouldn’t get too worked up; they weren’t comparing apples to oranges, probably intentionally. The F-15D was obviously clean with no external stores and full internal gas. The F-22 would have to have been fully loaded in his example:

Empty: 43,200lbs
Fuel: 20,650lbs
6 AIM-120 2,136
2 AIM-9 380
66,366lbs

2 x F119s 70,000

T/W 1.05:1

Regarding F119 static thrust, the author probably went what was safe and publicly released and hence used 35,000lbs.You are right in noting that the F119’s are always listed as 35,000lb “class” and many sources claim closer to 40,000lbs static thrust. That would give the jet a T/W ratio of 1.17:1. The F-15D in this scenario had a T/W ratio of 1.13:1, so the author was obviously rounding up to 25,000lbs for the F100s. In a real combat loaded configuration, the F-15C (with two externals) has a T/W of 0.89:1.

At 50% total fuel and 4 slammers gone, the jet would have:

F-22:
T/W 1.27~1.42:1
Wing loading 66lb/ft²

F-15C
T/W 1.15:1
Wing loading 68lb/ft²

Of course, don’t forget that it’s thrust-drag:weight and the F-15 carries everything externally so that’s a further penalty.

BDF

BTW- AvLeak 'leaks' what the USAF want's them to leak.

Elite 2K Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 2103 Status: Offline

Thanks for your latest replies, idesof and BDF! Please note: According to the ACC video (see direct link above), the 94th FS is slated for an AEF deployment beginning in May 2007. That´s the upcoming AEF 7/8 (Cycle 6) rotation (May - August 2007). For OPSEC guys: This info was already given by another official public USAF news. I´m longing to know their scheduled deployment location...

Enthusiast Joined: Aug 07, 2006 Posts: 24 Status: Offline

idesof wrote:

J.J. wrote:

"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me."

I love that! That's something that hasn't been stressed enough: even if you can "theoretically" see the Raptor in your radar, good luck getting any sort of lock on it. Further, here is an Eagle driver talking about not beeing able to "see" it within visual range, and his mount has one of the most powerful fighter radars in the world. As it stands right now, you've probably got a better shot of spotting the Raptor visually than through any sort of electronic means and that, I must say, is utterly amazing.

I'm curious if he had similar difficulty locking on with his sidewinders?

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