Raptors in exercises with Eurofighters?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1818077.stm

The US Air Force has already begun to take delivery of another superjet, the F-22 Raptor.

This is very stealthy but costs twice the price of the Eurofighter, and reports suggest that RAF's Eurofighters have flown highly successful missions against the F-22 during recent exercises in the US.

Any truth to this? I thought that the USAF typically avoids putting the Raptors in exercises with other AF's?

Well, there were at least two Eurofighters in Las Vegas (see this thread for pics ) during Red Flag and the Air Force published the fact that the F-22 would be in the mix for the first time ...

I don't think anyone's going to give a full accounting of the results of any encounters, but it's safe to say that encounters could have happened .

Eurofighters have flown highly successful missions against the F-22

Given it's the BBC I wouldn't give it any notice without a useable citation of the statement.

parrothead wrote:Well, there were at least two Eurofighters in Las Vegas (see this thread for pics ) during Red Flag and the Air Force published the fact that the F-22 would be in the mix for the first time ...

I don't think anyone's going to give a full accounting of the results of any encounters, but it's safe to say that encounters could have happened .

The BBC.co.uk article is from August 2006, so it is not describing the early 2007 Red Flag.

-- Shaken - out --

saigonsmuggler wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1818077.stm

The US Air Force has already begun to take delivery of another superjet, the F-22 Raptor.

This is very stealthy but costs twice the price of the Eurofighter, and reports suggest that RAF's Eurofighters have flown highly successful missions against the F-22 during recent exercises in the US.

Any truth to this? I thought that the USAF typically avoids putting the Raptors in exercises with other AF's?

Someone who should know has stated categorically that, when this article was written, the F-22 and Eurofighter had never engaged in any sort of mock engagements against each other. So, no, the article is referring to reports by one Jon Lake, a god-awful "aviation journalist" from England and Eurofighter apologist who claimed unnamed sources to make such statements. In short, that particular portion of the article is an outright lie, perpetrated by suspect "journalists" with jingoistic agendas.

Eurofighter is currently the 3rd best deployed fighter. In my view, t is no match for either the Raptor or Block II Rhino. Upgraded eagles (AESA, Aim 9X, Link 16) probably would give it a run for it's money also.

F-35 despite all of it's "shortcomings" when deployed should have no problem with it either.

Well, probably in a dogfight against tiffy raptor could be in difficulty since it still lack HOBOS missiles..

Since the Raptor can position itself within gun and Sidewinder range without being seen I highly doubt that will be the case. Then, due to LO features and super cruise capability the Raptor can merge back into BVR and not give anyone a chance to "turn and burn". Basically, fighting a Raptor that can merge from WVR to BVR (and vice verse) with impunity is like fighting a ghost, good luck!

Shaken wrote:

parrothead wrote:Well, there were at least two Eurofighters in Las Vegas (see this thread for pics ) during Red Flag and the Air Force published the fact that the F-22 would be in the mix for the first time ...

I don't think anyone's going to give a full accounting of the results of any encounters, but it's safe to say that encounters could have happened .

The BBC.co.uk article is from August 2006, so it is not describing the early 2007 Red Flag.

-- Shaken - out --

Gotcha and thanks for the info .

I was just saying that they were both around Vegas at the same time .

I cannot say if this is true, but at the same time I can't say its not. No one here knows what goes on behind the scenes, and it wouldn't surprise me if these two birds have had mock engagements. Really we have no idea.

Idesof wrote:Someone who should know has stated categorically that, when this article was written, the F-22 and Eurofighter had never engaged in any sort of mock engagements against each other. So, no, the article is referring to reports by one Jon Lake, a god-awful "aviation journalist" from England and Eurofighter apologist who claimed unnamed sources to make such statements. In short, that particular portion of the article is an outright lie, perpetrated by suspect "journalists" with jingoistic agendas.

Idesof I know you despise the Eurofighter, but don't think a BBC journalist is being jingoistic. The BBC like most of the media in the UK would rather have a stab at anything the Government has done than praise it, trust me. The Eurofighter hasn't had good press here, and the BBC loves to keep kicking something when its down. Most negative views about the EF have been perpetrated by the media mainly due to its delays and budget over-runs, and I know you will never change your view on the Tiffy, but I will say this; the proof will be in the pudding, and time will tell whether this bird is any good.

Thumper3181 wrote:Eurofighter is currently the 3rd best deployed fighter. It is no match for either the Raptor or Block II Rhino. Upgraded eagles (AESA, Aim 9X, Link 16) probably would give it a run for it's money also.

F-35 despite all of it's "shortcomings" when deployed should have no problem with it either.

Thumper, unlike Idesof who backs his statements up with intelligence and some relevant facts (although does not like the Eurofighter one bit), you seem to come out with incorrect statements and sometimes outrageous ones. The day you say anything that isn't so pro-US is the day I eat my hair. Basically anything non-US you seem to consider inferior, judging by most of your relevant comments I've seen on this board. Really everything you say is a little predictable, you view things from only one angle.

Folks its incredibly likely that the Raptor would win in a BVR engagement and perhaps WVR (who knows?), but it costs at least twice as much per unit as the Typhoon and a hell of a lot more in R&D, so that is expected. Really a lot of people here are not going to change their opinions, all I can say is that time will reveal the truth and prove/disprove the various speculations on this board.

Well, the Raptor cannot compete with the Typhoon at any point. Nor the T can compete with the R. This is simply because Typhoons are so far sold to close allies only. Which country does operate the Typhoon that is not a NATO honey ? How much possible is for a Typhoon-armed country to turn against the US ? Of course, the future brings much, but under that logic, we can say the Raptor is useless because in 40 years there will be an even better fighter which will in turn be useless etc...The point is what happens now.

Given the fact that very close NATO allies currently (and in the near future) possess the Typhoon and that the Raptor is "not for sale", then I cannot see how these two can be put against each other, except in a Red Flag and then only for testing purposes. Nor will "upgraded Eagles" do the same. At the same point, the Typhoon poses no danger to even a Phantom sitting in the desert, because it's again, NATO equipment So we might wanna stick to the topic: "Raptors in exercises with Eurofighters ?" and quit the junk about "who is better" that only ruins topics and creates flames ? One thing is for sure: the Raptor is the king of the block right now, and the other platforms (L II, Typhoon, upgraded Eagles, upgraded Mustangs) are capable enough to ensure a swift aerial victory when the time comes to fight. And not each other.

seat_dreamer wrote:Well, the Raptor cannot compete with the Typhoon at any point. Nor the T can compete with the R. This is simply because Typhoons are so far sold to close allies only. Which country does operate the Typhoon that is not a NATO honey ? How much possible is for a Typhoon-armed country to turn against the US ? Of course, the future brings much, but under that logic, we can say the Raptor is useless because in 40 years there will be an even better fighter which will in turn be useless etc...The point is what happens now.

Given the fact that very close NATO allies currently (and in the near future) possess the Typhoon and that the Raptor is "not for sale", then I cannot see how these two can be put against each other, except in a Red Flag and then only for testing purposes. Nor will "upgraded Eagles" do the same. At the same point, the Typhoon poses no danger to even a Phantom sitting in the desert, because it's again, NATO equipment So we might wanna stick to the topic: "Raptors in exercises with Eurofighters ?" and quit the junk about "who is better" that only ruins topics and creates flames ? One thing is for sure: the Raptor is the king of the block right now, and the other platforms (L II, Typhoon, upgraded Eagles, upgraded Mustangs) are capable enough to ensure a swift aerial victory when the time comes to fight. And not each other.

Well the future being the future and all, Saudi Arabia would become a user. Not really on the top of my list of useful allies. After we leave Iraq, who knows what the future holds for SA. Any new leadership there would have those jets, for better or for worse.

Add to that...

New York Times
February 15, 2007

Russia’s New Ties To Saudis


RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, Feb. 14 (AP) — Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, said Wednesday that his country was ready to cooperate with Russia in the military and nuclear-power spheres.

The comment followed a two-day visit this week by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

“There are no obstacles to cooperation between the two countries in all fields concerning the military and nuclear power,” Prince Saud told reporters.

On his visit, Mr. Putin was reported to have offered Russian expertise in nuclear energy to the Saudis.

The M.E. has such a bright future.

Would SA really turn against the USA however ? I'd think they still have strong ties (F-15s, E-3s, relative support for the king etc.) I can imagine that the Saudis are far more logical than Saddam or most current Irani officials....It's a family business anyways, not an elected government...

I would agree. Assuming the family is able to stay intact.

Dozer, a Raptor pilot who has been with the program since the beginning, has tested the plane, has flown the plane in airshows and has been the public face of the program for a lot of folks, is standing up a squadron of Raptors in Alaska even as we speak (actually, he's in Red Flag right now) categorically stated, when asked point-blank whether the Raptor and Eurocrapper had faced off against each other, he said he did not knot of any such mock engagements, and he would most assuredly know. Again, he did not say, no comment or can't reveal that or any such thing: he stated, have not know of any such engagements, period.