Forum: F-35 Lightning II

I agree: people are being misquoted and/or misunderstood. Once again: it makes no logical sense whatsoever to contemplate that the F-35 will be in production for 35 years, and that F-16s will be around in USAF inventory that much longer. Think about it, people.

What I wonder is whether the F-35 won't become increasingly outdated by UCAVs. F-22s can already control UCAVs ( http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/documen ... 010807.pdf (see page 3) ), which means that any mission that requires human intervention can be done by a UCAV as long as there's an F-22 around with a pilot in it.

Not taking into account that UCAVs are more stealthy, much cheaper, have longer range and spare human lives. A combination of F-22s/UCAVs may become more and more attractive vs the F-35 for the USAF - and for the navy also which could do the same with F-18Es.

One could argue that the same kind of combination could be feasable with F-35s, but wouldn't that reduce the number of F-35s needed which would in turn render the entire program questionable anyways?

<<Although its superiority in the A2A role is not as great as that offered by the F-22, it is nonetheless vastly superior to anything else out there or anticipated for the near future.>>
As long as LO rules, jamming + forward sig reduction doesn't fuddle tracking and as long as JSF's first shot takes the enemy out.

<<Given that R&D costs are pretty much sunked for both platform at this point>>
We are HALF WAY at best through JSF SDD.
<< the affordability quotient really comes down to manufacturing costs and the F-35 is much cheaper to produce meaning you can produce roughly three F-35s for the money it takes to make one F-22. >>

If you build 3000 of one and 183 of the other that comparison holds.

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The bottom line is that for all their differences, the F-35 -- like the F-22 -- has the key ingredients for A2A combat success in the 21st century. It is able to out detect the opponent and stay undetectable to SAM sites, AWACs, fighters and everything else at any reasonable ranges. Supercruise is nice, but it is a fuel economy feature that is not really essential. In terms of altitude performance and maneuverability, again the F-35 is more than good enough.

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<i>*All aspect stealth ( F-22 is )
*Wide band stealth ( F-22 is )
*A uber super cruise jet until tests show otherwise. </i>

I haven't seen ANY official sources which states or even hinted that the F-35's stealth treatment is any narrower band than the F-22s. The only statements to that regard had been made by biased F-35 opponents and "analysts" who know NOTHING of the highly secretive material surrounding the F-35's stealth implementation. Put bluntly, individuals who do not know what they are talking about and are highly biased and agendalized to begin with. The only official statement regarding F-35 observability are very vague and they say that basically it has a forward sector RCS roughly comparable to a metallic "golf ball" vs that of the F-22 which was described as being comparable to a metallic "insect". They also say that the F-35's stealth treatment is much easier to maintain and constitutes a much smaller hassle when performing repairs and routine maintenance on the jet. One of the things eliminated was the use of LO putty to seal gaps of every removable panel -- instead the F-35's panels have a raised LO edge which requires no puttying. I otherwords, if you want to believe the statements regarding "narrowband stealth" and build your reasonings around them, thats fine. But, there is no evidence to this regard.

And, I'll tell you why these speculations makes little sense. If the F-35 is primarily a "strike" aircraft -- as many of the same "analysts" claim -- instead of a all round superior multi-role platform, then the ability to penetrate enemy SAM defences and kill enemy ground targets has to be a top priority. If that is the case, then the ability to penetrate enemy air defence networks is more important than the ability to hamper enemy fighter radars because the overwhelming majority of the obstacles it will face in such missions will be AWACs (if any), SAM radars and long range ground based surveillance radars. In other words, it'll face the same basic threat as the B-2. Remain undetected and the fighters wouldn't even know that you are there and wouldn't even be vectored to intercept you! If this is the case, then X-band stealth does not make ANY sense. The reason is that most long range search radars are L-band. SAM radars are frequently C-band or S-band. In fact, you rarely see ANYTHING on SAM batteries or AWACs or AAW ships that are X-band at all! It is only very recently that X-band was adopted by a handful of ship board multi-function ESA radars because it simply takes too much energy to obtain the same range in X-band. The lower frequencies, while less precise is good enough unless you need very high discrimination resolution and they are much more efficient. What I am trying to say is that if the F-35 has to be "narrow band" for whatever reason, it'll make more sense to make it L thru S-band biased rather than X thru Ka band biased.

DW...... I don't have all the answers, by a long shot. Fair to say that the topic really shouldn't be explored that much. Also I have been wrong before. No big deal. We each have our thoughs on this... time will tell. I would say that we are closer on some issues than far apart.

The JSF is not a substitute for the F/A-22A. In fact, the JSF will rely on the F/A-22A for air dominance. The F/A-22A offers the performance required to counter advanced ‘double-digit’ SAMs developed in the Soviet Union during the 1980s and later by Russia with NATO reporting names higher than SA-10 and next generation air threats that are growing throughout the Pacific Theater of operations. The F-35A JSF is a low cost, multi-mission aircraft primarily designed for air-to-ground operations to
replace Air Force F-16s and A-10s. Today, the F-15 and F-16 are a highly successful synergistic team;the F/A-22A and F-35A will be the winning team of the future.Too many people look at the F/A-22A as a single role aircraft. It can perform the roles of not only air-to-air but also surface attack, suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses, airborne warning, electronic attack, cruise missile defense, and others. It can perform roles and in situations that the F-15E, and joint strike fighter cannot.

Granted that is for us with a dual team. A JSF only user has some work to do if they want to take on more modern IADS by themselves.

Here is his bio...
http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5213