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Enthusiast Joined: May 31, 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline

Hey fellas I'm new to the forums so forgive me if this is a repeat... Based on the stealthy strategy of having a radar silent raptor recieving info from AWACS via datalink, would a high flying F-22 and its APG-77 make an effective platform as sort of an armed, supercruising AWACS? Also, is the software on older legacy aircraft up to date to the point where they can share the same datalink as the F-22? From a strategic standpoint, a Raptor, capable of operating deep over enemy territory as an airborne command center would be a great force multiplier considering the limited number of F-22's being produced...

I know the F-22s are highly capable of sharing data among themselves, basically I'm wondering if the rest of the air force A/C are compatable with and/ or capable of using the same tactics WITH the F-22?

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Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1034 Status: Offline

Yes...its already been used in that capacity at Northern Edge with much success.

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checksixx wrote:

Yes...its already been used in that capacity at Northern Edge with much success.

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Because of its excellent radar performance combined with advanced LPI techniques incorporated into the radar and the mission systems facilities to distribute information, the F-22 is useful as a airborne radar sensor for other aircrafts on the friendly side. As a side benefit in such tasks, tracks supplied by the F-22 is of considerably higher resolution than that achievable by AWACs.

However, it is at best a spartan mini-AEW platform not really a mini-AWACs and will never take on that role. The reasons are many and may include:-

(1) As good as the F-22's radar is, it is not as long ranged. This is because X-band is good for resolution but bad for range, and of course the APG-77 is nowhere near as big as AWAC radars. AWAC radars of comparable AESA technology (eg. the SiC based APY-9 AESA on the E-2D) should see at least 2~3 times further.

(2) One man is really not enough for directing the action. Most AWACs have many crew members to comprehen the tactical information and direct the action. Even if the F-22 can't do the same even if he gives it 100% attention which he can't because he is also flying and fighting in his own Raptor.

(3) The F-22 does not have anywhere near the endurance of even the most short winded AWACs or AEW aircrafts. It cannot stay for half a day pulling AEW/AWACs duties without tanker support nor should it.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2848

AWACs is useful but battles in the past have shown it's ability to give the full picture: variable. One example, the F-15 twin Mig-29 shoot down in ex-Yugo, produced some very unkind comments on AWACs performance from the F-15 shooters on that event and later on in the rest of their patrol. F-22 gives its team and the legacy design fighters with it better awareness of what is behind terrain that a far off AWACs cant see through. This includes helping the legacy jets task out their BVR shots correctly by being able to see what those legacys are locked on to. So while F-22 is deadly, so is a force of F-22 and F-15s in the same package. Some F-22s after emptying their missiles will stay around using their fast battlespace mobility and sensors to help the next incoming package of friendlies. F-22 may not be an AWACs, however we are much stronger with F-22 teamed up with AWACs to give everyone a lot better situational awareness once battle starts.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2848

dwightlooi wrote:

(2) One man is really not enough for directing the action.

That hasn't proven to be exactly true in past F-22 exercises. The F-22 has in fact been directing other jets on its team what to lock on to and when two or more are doubled up on one target. Where the F-22 is seeing all of this on their sensors, and gets on the radio and tells them not to double up on this one that there is another one over here not setup for a BVR shot. That is one thing AWACs can't do today even with all those people in it. No F-22 can in no way do it all or is it an AWACs, However, F-22 enhances all the shooters on its team greatly.

The F-22 radar may not have 360 degree coverage of the same max range but it does have higher fidelity, accuracy and speed. From what has been said it can also identify the type of AC in question, instead of just showing an ambiguous blip. Also, given the LPI and VLO technology of the F-22 it can get much closer to the action than an AWACS can so a 250 mile range radar for example is not really as necessary for it as it is for an AWACS.

So, it is not an AWACS replacement but in certain circumstances it can act in that role and be very effective...

One of the problems, at least for the moment, is that the raptor does not have a two-way datalink (Link 16) capability. It has a receive-only link 16 and a two way intra flight data link. So for the moment, an f 22 can only receive data from other assts (AWACS, Rivet Joint, GCI) and communicate with other Raptors.

However, the tremendous data gathering capabilities of the plane (displayed among others at the large exercises already mentioned) convinced USAF to integrate a full Link 16 (MIDS terminal). I remember that one of the pilots said that the terminal arrived, but are not integrated yet. Only then a Raptor can be a mini-AWACS or a mini-Rivet Joint.

Enthusiast Joined: May 31, 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline

yea PhillyGuy thats what I meant... even though the f-22's radar doesn't have the range/ 360 degree coverage I was wondering if the F-22's speed and VLO could negate the lack of radar range and operate as a mini AWACS over enemy territory where the AWACS would be vulnerable...

thanks for the answers guys... any idea if a two-way datalink is in the makings?

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