Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Interesting article that mentions that retired F-117s will need a parking spot that has good security....

http://www.elpasotimes.com/breakingnews/ci_5087348

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Pretty good article.

Cool stuff Cool

. I wonder if any more will go to museums or gate guards?

I've heard rumors the museum here at Robins will be getting one. We have an SR-71 here, so wouldn't surprise me. Maybe they'll send 807.

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

Is there a place I could find the article. It's gone.

Holloman readies to get Raptors, retire F-117s.

The stealth fighter once called the "hopeless diamond" because it's odd radar-dispersing geometry made it an improbable flier is on its way out at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, but it will be replaced by one of the forces' newest gems, the F-22 Raptor.
Although F-117 pilots defend their beloved Nighthawk, which is still flying vital missions, the base's new commander, Brig. Gen. David L. Goldfein, said the F-22 can perform missions done by at least four other aircraft "equally as well, and in many cases, better."

The Raptor can engage in combat with other fighters, execute deep strikes in heavily defended target areas, perform precision bombing missions like the F-117, provide close support for ground forces and more, he said.

"The F-117, like all aircraft throughout our history has a life cycle," Goldfein said. "It just gets old and becomes more expensive to own and operate."

The F-22 will do "the future jobs that we have been called upon to do," Goldfein said, adding that the Raptor will allow quicker planning

Early estimates are that the transition will cost about $54 million, said Maj. John Mihaly, chief of the 49th Fighter Wing Integration Office, which doesn't include the cost of planes or regularly scheduled personnel rotations.

The money mostly will be used to pay for modernization and a few new buildings such as an airspace ground equipment facility for storage and repair work, and a munitions trailer repair facility, which is needed because of the F-22s expanded weapons capabilities, Mihaly said.

In 2007, 10 F-117s will be retired with another 40 going in 2008, "which will retire the fleet here," Mihaly said, and a few "test birds" at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., will be retired in 2008, which will account for the entire Nighthawk fleet.

As it stands, the F-117s are slated to be sent to the "boneyard" at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz. But Holloman officials are working with Congress to find a more cost-effective way to decommission the fleet.

Using the boneyard will require an upfront investment of $5 million and more money each year for security considerations, including patrols and intrusion alarm systems, Mihaly said. The stealth technology, which includes unique geometry and surface coatings, still is considered classified and sensitive.

One possibility that has been discussed is sending the aircraft to Tonopah Test Range Airfield in Nevada, where the Nighthawk was born. "If hangar space is available, that would be great," Mihaly said.

New arrivals

The first Raptor is set to arrive at Holloman in late 2008 with about two aircraft each month until the full contingent of 40 aircraft is in place, which will take about two years. Base officials are working to get a training aircraft in early 2008 so that maintenance crews can familiarize themselves with the new technology.

"The ones we get here will be coming right off the assembly line," Mihaly said of the wing's 40 aircraft. So far, there has not been a deadline set for the wing to be "mission ready."

The unit will have to get the needed equipment and supplies to be mission ready, he said. That includes everything from oil to armament.

Although there always is uncertainty with this level of change, Mihaly said, Holloman appears to be perfectly suited to become home to the Raptor.

"The F-117 and the F-22 are the same size," Mihaly said, "so they can park in the same hangars."

Some hangar modifications will be required, he said, but they can be done at "very little cost." And the experts on what is called "low-observable" technology will still be needed for the Raptor, which also is a stealth aircraft.

"We will be able to transfer most of our maintenance people in place from the F-117 to the F-22," Mihaly said of the approximately 2,000-person workforce. "It's good news for them. It puts them on a career path so theyre on to the latest and greatest technology."

So far, only one pilot has been identified who will move from the Nighthawk to the Raptor. Mihaly, said there will be a few others, but most of the pilots will go on to other assignments.

Some of the equipment can be used on either aircraft, but things such as simulators and engine test cells will have to be modified or replaced, Mihaly said.

Many of the mission support jobs, which include police and civil engineers, also aren't dependent on the type of aircraft flown at the base. In particular, the base security required for the F-22 and the F-117 are the same, Mihaly said.

Other groups, such as the medical group and the Basic Expeditionary Airbase Resources group, which can set up airfields just about anywhere, will be "basically unaffected," he said.

Coming together

Goldfein, base commander, said there are other reasons Holloman is a good choice for the F-22. He points to the central location in relation to Air Force assets in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and other states.

"The perfect storm is building here, in a good way," Goldfein said. "In the (geographic) center, the bullseye hits Holloman and White Sands Missile Range."

But it is a partnership with the Army that he is currently focused on. He already is directing planning to integrate the F-22 with the Army's Future Combat Systems program, which includes an evaluation brigade combat team at Fort Bliss that will test and evaluate the Army's newest high-tech weaponry and communications systems.

"FCS and the F-22 are a perfect marriage," Goldfein said. "As we test and develop FCS and bring on the F-22, we will look at how these systems grow together. ... The F-22 with its embedded (communications and electronics systems), will tie into the developing joint operations that will establish the tactics and procedures for what will be used worldwide."

Ideally, the more precise application of firepower made possible by technological advances incorporated in the F-22 will allow ground and air forces to work more closely together and avoid self-inflicted casualties, he said. The precision also will allow combined missions in confined urban environments.

"If that's the way we're going to fight, that's the way we're going to train," Goldfein said. Right now, "the individual elements of training, they're all disconnected."

Goldfein said adjustments would focus on daily activities rather than large exercises or deployments. The first challenge will be to coordinate training schedules and create the communications infrastructure. White Sands would serve as the communications hub, he said.

The forces could be brought together, for example, to practice a combat search and rescue, he said. Elements would include a Predator (unmanned aerial vehicle), airborne radar planes, special forces soldiers and a maneuver unit on the ground, Goldfein said.

The fliers would be responsible for orchestrating the rescue, while the ground unit would execute a "suppression maneuver" to keep enemy forces from attacking the rescuers, he said. Only the ground forces and Holloman fliers would be real, "everything else is virtual," he said.

However, the scenario would not be programmed. Instead it would rely on human operators simulating the air reconnaissance and other elements at remote sites. Such exercises require human input, he said, "because it's a very dynamic situation and you just can't script these things out."

http://www.elpasotimes.com/breakingnews/ci_5087348

What a difference 3 years in information makes! The -117s, as most of you may already know, did NOT go to AMARG. Instead, they went to a climate controlled hangar at TTR, where, with the exception of a few components, they are maintained in flyable storage. At least one bird has recently returned to flight, although its current status is unknown.

Only one bird was destroyed, in what has now become a very famous photograph on the internet. That was intentionally done, and the word I have received from multiple sources was that the bird in question was NOT in flyable condition before the destruction/aircraft disposition test.

As an aside, since the article mentions it, Holloman is now about to trade in those very same F-22s that they received in 08-09 for F-16s. Once the Vipers arrive on station at KHMN, the 49th Wing will transfer to AETC.

Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

F-117 Will Have Special Post Retirement Storage