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Elite Joined: Oct 30, 2006 Posts: 625 Status: Offline

For all the Dawgs

You know it's cold now ... why is QA going to write you up because you use the brilliant heat that comes off the motor to inflate your Gortex jacket and warm you up when you stick your sleeves in it? As long as you move before SEC, should be no Problem.

ECS exhaust is the best source of heat when your stuck on the line and so is the -60 to warm your hands.

Any other sources of heat on the jet?

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Except for the exhaust and the heat exchanger exhaust, i can't think of any other heat sources. I just bundle up. I layer myself with a fleece jacket under my uniform shirt, then wear my goretex.

Well the other ones are not so nice in a way.

The CENC air motor exhaust is HOT (1150F) too but only works when the nozzle position changes and is not a big exhaust and it's located near the ventral fins there for not handy.

The JFS exhaust (1150F) for a little bit and if you are lucky you could grill your hotdog too cause of the flames coming out.

Then IF you have a bad day and freezing your behind off in the open, you are about done the EPU could fire (1600F) and make you warm too either from the exhaust or the running you got to do.

The friendliest one I have found is the ECS exhaust (325F) nice to open your jacket a bit and warm the legs and all of that.

I can remember at Goosebay Canada, after doing the thru-flight waiting in the nozzle for 25 min or longer on a fuel truck that when it was near you it was empty so you had to wait longer.

The fuel truck drivers always laughed cause they where wearing the right cold weather stuff and we didn't hoping to be done in 35-45 min and get inside the crewroom.

greetz Henk

Veteran Joined: Oct 24, 2006 Posts: 272 Status: Offline

The JFS is nice as long as you stay about 6-8 feet from it. I've backed up a little closer and felt a little too much heat. Wink

ECS is best under the wheel well, but I also inflate my goretex sleeves in the engine exhaust. Usually QA isn't on the line when it's that cold so I don't worry....heh.

First thing in the morning we use the heaters to defrost our canopies...that's a great way to keep warm during the AM preflights.

As far as the POL guys...if they're dragging their feet when it's that cold, I'll go about my TH or BPO and let them do all the fueling stuff. When they're quick I'll help by dragging the hose, plugging in grounds, chocking the truck, etc. I usually don't have a problem with them unless I'm on the end of the line. Then it doesn't matter if mine was first to land...sometimes I still end up being last for gas...grrrr.

Back in the F-4 days when we had to use the -60 to start them, I'd warm my gloves in the -60 exhaust too.

EPU Exhaust........ Shocked

CajunMaintainer wrote:

EPU Exhaust........ Shocked

eek

For all you ANG technicians, stay inside and let the weekenders launch on drill weekend! Twisted Evil

Elite Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

sd2azang wrote:

For all you ANG technicians, stay inside and let the weekenders launch on drill weekend! Twisted Evil

Yeah - like you really have that problem where you are. Our guys just got back from there and I don't remember hearing anyone complain about being cold. Wink

Screw QA.

Well Jackie the Tucson guys get cold when it drops below 80 degrees.

Elite Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 683 Status: Offline

Have any of you actually read the MSDS for Jet Fuel!?

Exclamation

http://www.valero.com/NR/rdonlyres/194D ... els104.pdf

JP-8 isn't exactly designed as warming fluid. "Danger! Contains Benzene. Cancer hazard. Can cause kidney, liver, and blood disorders. Exhaust Fumes Have Been Reported to be an Occupational hazard due to NIOSH-reported potential carcinogenic properties."

Also... "WARNING: the burning of any hydrocarbon as a fuel in an area without adequate ventilation may result in hazardous levels of combustion products, including carbon monoxide, and inadequate oxygen levels, which may cause unconsciousness, suffocation, and death." You may be outdoors, but standing that close to engine exhaust isn't exactly safe.

There is some BAD stuff in JP-8 and when it burns that same stuff, or some nasty combinations are in the exhaust you're standing in to stay warm! (Naphthalene, Xylene, Toluene, Ethylbenzene, Benzene, etc) "Products of Combustion: These products are carbon oxides (CO, CO2), nitrogen and sulfur oxides (NOX, SOX), particulate matter, VOC's." Chevron's MSDS states "A complex mixture of airborne solids, liquids, and gases including carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and unidentified organic compounds will be evolved when this material undergoes combustion."

WTF

Those "unidentified" things will get you.... Don't forget the +100 crap that was (or is still) in the fuel. That MSDS is a "trade secret" and even nastier than the fuel from what I hear!

Do yourself a favor, get some hand-warmer packs, or electric hunting socks.

That Engine Guy sayz - At any rate stay out of the engine and JFS exhaust! Better to be cold today than not see retirement.

Keep YOURSELF safe... Thumb

Elite Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 683 Status: Offline

Sorry I forgot one thing in my above post....

THAT is why QA doesn't want you "staying warm" in the engine exhaust.

MSDS's are quite fun to read, if you ever have a few minutes to spare. Especially for some of the things that you wouldn't normally think of as being too bad for you, since most of us (crew chiefs) have had at least one shower in them. Try the hydraulic fluid or 7808 one sometime. Quite enlightening, actually...

So, when you turn 30 and go "Where did that possibly come from" you might have an idea...

Elite Joined: Oct 26, 2004 Posts: 656 Status: Offline

Quote:

There is some BAD stuff in JP-8 and when it burns that same stuff, or some nasty combinations are in the exhaust you're standing in to stay warm! (Naphthalene, Xylene, Toluene, Ethylbenzene, Benzene, etc) "Products of Combustion: These products are carbon oxides (CO, CO2), nitrogen and sulfur oxides (NOX, SOX), particulate matter, VOC's." Chevron's MSDS states "A complex mixture of airborne solids, liquids, and gases including carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and unidentified organic compounds will be evolved when this material undergoes combustion."

All true. It also tastes bad and makes your lips numb.

I always like to be off to the side. Couple of feet behind the stab. Warm but not baking. Upwind so you get the heat and not the fumes.

Most QA types I've been around haven't been familiar enough with the MSDS to tell someone about all the good stuff in JP-8. Their issue was always "the throttle could get bumped, and you get blown over" or "you could lose your balance, and get blown over" or "the engine could shell or catch on fire, and all the crap will hit you". They made sure to tell us this from the comfort of their heated S-10 truck cab.

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How do you keep warm?