Libya to order 13-18 French Rafale jets - paper

Libya to order 13-18 French Rafale jets - paper
Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:26 PM IST

http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2007-01-14T121944Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-283524-3.xml

PARIS (Reuters) - Libya wants to order between 13 and 18 Rafale fighter jets from France in a deal worth as much as 2.5 billion euros ($3.24 billion), a French newspaper reported on Sunday.

The weekly Journal du Dimanche, citing a source close to the Libyan government, said Libya had taken the decision to order the aircraft over an offer from BAE Systems to modernise its ageing Russian MiGs as well as competing offers from China and Russia.

If confirmed, the deal would be the first foreign order for the 34 billion euro Rafale programme, which has been shortlisted several times but which is yet to find a foreign buyer, prompting French officials to seek improvements to its radar system.

In 2004, the European Union lifted an arms embargo against Libya imposed in 1986.

Libya emerged from international isolation from 2003 when it accepted responsibility for the Lockerbie airliner bombings over Scotland and announced it would abandon its nuclear weapons programme. Most U.S. sanctions were lifted in 2004.

My 2 cents:

1c Dassault denies any contract - looking at their eagerness to find the first export customer for Rafale, they would have been the first to announce it.

2c Libya and Dassault just signed a contract for the refurbishment and upgrade of 12 Libyan Mirage F1s - why bother with old jets when you are going to buy new?

IMO the whole thing started because a Libyan pilot got a ride in a Rafale B.

Lets all cough up some money and send Gums to France for a ride in that thing.


"USAF Considers Rafael"

Speculation, Libya has come cap in hand though in recent years, they could get whatever they wanted.... Would the US be prepared to sell The Colonel fighters yet?

http://p143.news.scd.yahoo.com/s/afp/20 ... 0114213725

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=159071

elp wrote:Lets all cough up some money and send Gums to France for a ride in that thing.


"USAF Considers Rafael"

AS I pointed in another thread, Lybia has not ordered anything so far. They only declared they were willing to acquire Rafales, but the French government has not accepted to sell anything so far.
Anyway I think that it will not change until a new president is elected (in May). He or she will be the one who will ultimately decide if France will accept to sell Rafales to Lybia.

By the way, even if in English and American forums one may often find "Rafale" spelled "Rafael", the right spelling is definitely "Rafale".

snypa777 wrote:Speculation, Libya has come cap in hand though in recent years, they could get whatever they wanted.... Would the US be prepared to sell The Colonel fighters yet?

http://p143.news.scd.yahoo.com/s/afp/20 ... 0114213725

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=159071

Seeing as they'll sell ANYTHING to Saudi Arabia I don't see a problem with US fighters in Libya.

snypa777 wrote:Would the US be prepared to sell The Colonel fighters

Not a chance. Muammar might've cooled off since the '80s, but there's still too many hard feelings. He's also an ally of some folks that the U.S. chooses not to do business with. Libya is supposed to be our friend now, but are they really that trustworthy?

This decision really doesn't surprise me. France has historically sold military equipment to countries that could very well use the same equipment against them.

Of course, the U.S. has made the occasional FMS blunder, but the U.S. government is pretty quick to dole out embargoes, when the political/diplomatic situation starts going south. That being said, I do not feel the slightest bit threatened by Iranian Tomcats, or Venezuelan Vipers.

France, on the other hand, should already feel concerned about the potnential for Mirage v. Mirage combat. If deals like this go through, in the future, we may see Rafale v. Rafale engagements.

If France goes through with this, then they are making a bad choice.

The French and Dassault are so desperate to find an export customer for the ill-fated Rafale they will do everything to strike a deal with anyone including Libya,PRC (if the EU lifts the embargo)Iran and the others of their ilk.

The French and Dassault are so desperate to find an export customer for the ill-fated Rafale they will do everything to strike a deal with anyone including Libya,PRC (if the EU lifts the embargo)Iran and the others of their ilk.

Well, I cannot say anything simpler than... "no". No French government would sell combat aircraft to Iran, or China, because the predictable reaction of our allies means that we would lose more than what we would gain, no doubt. (Simply look for Mirage 2000 customers: no potential threat. It has been a long time since France actually sold combat aircraft to a potentially threatening country .)
Moreover, Dassault does not need to sell Rafale to foreign customers in order to survive. They earn much more money by selling Falcon bizzjets, and Dassault keeps being a profitable company, whether they sell Rafale or not. Sure, they would not dislike being able to sell some, but they are not desperate about it at all.

[Well, I cannot say anything simpler than... "no". No French government would sell combat aircraft to Iran, or China, because the predictable reaction of our allies means that we would lose more than what we would gain, no doubt. (Simply look for Mirage 2000 customers: no potential threat. It has been a long time since France actually sold combat aircraft to a potentially threatening country .)


Well, As far as the PRC is concerned,Mr Chirac himself proposed the motion to lift the embargo but Germany and Britain declined.





Moreover, Dassault does not need to sell Rafale to foreign customers in order to survive. They earn much more money by selling Falcon bizzjets, and Dassault keeps being a profitable company, whether they sell Rafale or not. Sure, they would not dislike being able to sell some, but they are not desperate about it at all. [/quote]




I didn't mean that Dassault depends on Rafale for survival, Of course not. They need to manufacture only 1,5 Rafale a month in order to keep the assembly line open which is already secured through 294 Rafales ordered by French airforce and Navy.Rafale is the best and the most advanced fighter that came out of the production line in Bordeaux and still no customer outside France. For a company who has been so successful with Mirage series since 1960' s ,this must have been a big dissapointment ,if not desperation.

Mmm, you are absolutely right about what M. Chirac said. However, he is very capable of saying yes and no on the same subject, depending on the day and the one who listens to him.
And that is what he actually did about China... So, it is often safer to only look at what the French government really does in the end, than listen to what M. Chirac might say.