Forum: General

I was asked a question by "Karaya" (a new poster) in a PM (email).

He asked if I had any information or photo (of this specific aircraft) surrounding the terrible fatal accident of 10 May 1983 when I was assigned to the 10th Fighter Squadron, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base.

F-16 tail number 81-0664 block 15 crashed near Hornberg, Germany killing the pilot (Lt. Steve Wallice). The aircraft struck a series of buildings before it crashed and came apart killing the pilot (no one else luckily).

I was able to contact the right folks and discovered that the accident is still "sealed" it is quite normal to hold release of the official report (full details) for twenty five (25) years. I did not know that it is held closed that long, we have a a tad over a year to go before full disclosure occurs.

But I was given a copy of the basic initial on sight report that is cleared for public release, I have been trying to send that report to Karaya (poster in Germany) but for some strange reason the attachment is not going through so I thought I would try and see if it can be posted this way.

Hopefully he reads this forum and gets the answers he is looking for, even if it is not the detail report he had hoped for. The way I read it (my opinion only) during a repositioning maneuver, the pilot possibly lost his position to the ground and hit the buildings...of course it is really much more detailed than that or it is possible that it ingested a bird that possibly stalled the engine causing the tragic event but we wont know until May 2008 (too much speculation on my part maybe).

But I think it is safe to assume, this "could" be a lack of altitude and situation awareness that possibly caused this tragic event and loss of life of a young aviator from my old squadron (don't know) but here is that initial report, draw your own conclusions but tragic in any event.

Real world practice is just as deadly as real world engagements...we train as we need to fight - God Bless this young Lt, he gave it all so many years ago - Salute

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Hello everbody here,

I´m a member of a small fire-department of Kirchberg Germany.
We are writing an article about this crash for our web-site. Meathook
helped me as I asked him for more information about that accident.
Now I want give a little more information to the members of that community, so I try to attach a map from the aera there the aircraft
crashed.

Karaya

Sorry for the first map, it was the first try.
I think this two are better.

Karaya

The second one!

Hello everbody!

The article about the crash of 81-664 is on our website. The article is
in german, but we have some photos from our local newspaper!

Our website: www.feuerwehr-kirchberg.de/

use on the left side the button "Flugunfälle" (double-klick on the suitcase!)

and look at:

"Absturz einer F16 1983"

"Augenzeugenbericht"

"Bilder / Presse"

Hope you enjoy it!!!

Karaya

Very interesting.
I live in Schwaebisch Hall, about 10 miles south west of the crash site. I knew about the crash of that F-16, but I never heard about or saw the details before I visited your web site.

What was that other crash near Duensbach? That one is new to me. Please contact me via PM.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 26, 2006 - 10:26 PM Posts: 55

How's it going?

I was there with you at that time. I thought there was some kind of evidence leaning towards AOA heaters inop and they froze up giving him erroneous AOA. Of course, with all we've seen that could have been a completely different incident.

By the way, the Fightin' Tenth at Hahn was hands-down one of the best assignments I've ever had!! Very Happy

Rupp

Dear all,

I grew up at Hahn Air Base and have been researching the history of the 50th TFW and its squadrons.

I have been in touch with somebody from Kirchberg/Jagst before about this incident. Were there ever pictures taken of the crash site? Do we have more information about the day it happened?

Best wishes, TAGS

Hello @all!

@lancer512:

I also never had seen something about that accident in the web. In Hornberg there were two exhibitions about the accident: the first was, I´m not shure, 10 years after the crash. The second was on 10th May this year ==> 25 years after the accident. Some people from Hornberg made a little
book, also with fotos and short articles.
About the crash near Duensbach: I´m not really shure that my information are correct: I think it was around 7years before (1976??). I think it was a F4F Phantom from the german airforce! You´ve PM!

@rupp

I wasn´t able to understand what you´ve written in your post! I used a translate-program in the web and if it worked well you write something that
the aircraft had something like a "stall" !!!???!!! Sorry my english is to bad!!!

@tagsf16:
The photos from the crash site was taken from a man from our local newspaper (Hohenloher Tagblatt)
You write that you want more informations ==> which informations?

Thursday morning between 9:00 and 9:30
weather? not shure but I think it was cloud and no rain.
Hope that is what you wanted to know. If you want detailed informations please write me the questions!

Karaya

Sorry for my english to less possibility to use!!

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 26, 2006 - 10:26 PM Posts: 55

@karaya

What I had heard was that the angle of attack probes had frozen over because the heaters were inoperative. This caused an erroneous angle of attack to be sent to the cockpit and the pilot lost situational awareness.

Not sure if that was on this crash though.

Karaya,

I just saw in the e-mails that there is a book that was made by the people in Hornberg. Is there a chance to get scans of it or a copy?

By the way, I am in touch with many of the former F-16 pilots from Hahn. One of them was part of the investigating team, I guess, back then and said that witnesses on the ground had seen "smoking aircraft" flying overhead during and after the accident --- which means F-4s were in the area. Probably they could have had a little air-to-air encounter at low level when the accident occured? Anybody else remember other fighters being overhead that day in Hornberg.

By the way, i live in Germany and sometimes drive by Kirchberg/Jagst along the Autobahn. Is Hornberg a part of Kirchberg/Jagst? where exactly did the accident occur?

TAGS

Karaya: I can help you with the translation if you have problems.

@tagsf16: It´s only a small book. I´ll check it. Is it only for you or do you wonna use it for a website?

After the crash was many traffic above Hornberg. Many helicopters and aircrafts were above the village. I´ll have to check this with some people
who have seen the crash. I´ll give you answer as soon as posible. But look at the document from meathook. It was no offical paper and he get it one year ago. You can read from a training of a two-ship-formation (one agressor and one interceptor (the first posting in this topic or on our website) but I´ll check it once again.

Hornberg is a part of Kirchberg. The plane crashed into the village (read meathooks document and see the picture in the item Augenzeugenbericht
(it is a photo, made by plane one year ago with discribssions)

Crash near Duensbach: It was a canadian Starfighter F-104 it was no german F-4F

@rupp05: most people who witnessed the crash (f-16 in Hornberg) said that the plane flew in a small angel (nose down) about 6 kilometers into the ground. At the positon of hornberg it disappered behind a forestline, touched with a wing the roof of the firehouse and crashed on the other side of the street in a farm-house. But one women who saw the plane said the plane flew before the crash in "head-douwn-position": head-down & low-level-flight in nose-to-ground direction & pull the stick => everbody here knows the result. But rember: only one women said this, all other people said the plane was in normal flying position!!

O.K. I finish for today.

Karaya

Karaya,

it would only be for private purposes. as I said, I have been collecting memorabilia from Hahn AB (50th TFW) and its fighter squadrons since 1991. I lived nearby for 27 years until I moved to Munich 5 years ago. If you want, we can exchange e-mails and write in German if that is easier for you... My e-mail is AgueraMartin@aol.com

Best wishes,

TAGS

I was stationed at Hahn from 83-86. I had only been there for about two months when this accident happened. I cut out and saved a copy of the Stars and Stripes from May 11, 1983. I had saved this clipping in my air force papers for some reason all these years.

Forum: General

1983 - 10th FS, Hahn AB Germany Aircraft Mishap