Forum: F-16 News

Although I must say that I am somewhat at a loss as to why he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.

My condolences also to Maj. Gilbert's family. Although I must say that I am somewhat at a loss as to why he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. I wonder what others who earned DFCs in the past think about that. Also, whether an otherwise inadvisable maneuver was wrongfully rewarded, in the process setting a bad example for others. I am not disputing the bravery of his actions, nor the Major's patriotism nor whether his actions saved the lives of others. I am, however, concerned about the message this sends.

After reading this post this morning, I've spent the day trying to come up with an answer that I wouldn't immediately regret posting. "Idesof", that may very well be the most insensitive, ignorant and blatantly offensive posts I've ever seen here.

I can only assume that each of these was also an "inadvisable maneuver" and that you are equally concerned about the "message" that their actions send. I, for one, am proud to say that I know whose message I believe in, and it sure as hell isn't yours.

There is a reason you are not a journalist, willing to ask difficult, but necessary, questions

Fair enough. There is a reason you are not a journalist, willing to ask difficult, but necessary, questions.

You certainly have the right to ask these questions. However the tone of this question was clearly disrespectful, as pointed out by Mike Kopack and Scott.

You could've asked the same question in a completely neutral way, respecting Maj. Troy's memory, but you intentionally chose to use insulting and offensive phrasing.

So yes, you have the right to ask controversial questions. If you ask it in decent way, you might even get some interesting answers. But you don't have the right to ignore common courtesy and respect.

This is an honest question: what exactly was "offensive" about the tone or phrasing of my original questions/concerns? Had I written, geez, what an idiot, he forgot the ground! What's up with that? I would surely realize you have more than a point. But that is not at all what I wrote.

What I did write is that here is a pilot--obviously a brave pilot--who nevertheless inarguably made a fatal mistake, lost his life and plane in the process, and yet is being awarded the DFC, which is the second highest distinction that may be awarded an airman after the Congressional Medal of Honor itself.

His bravery is not in dispute. Whether his actions constituted "distinguished flying" I think is very much open to question. But if you could point out what exactly was offensive about the tone and phrasing of my original questions and comments, I would be the first to apologize for them. The most "offensive" content in my original message was the term "inadvisable maneuver." I don't think anyone would propose that a maneuver that leads to the loss of situational awareness and subsequently one's life is advisable at all. If I am somehow intransigent for proposing as much, I am evidently in need of some serious reprogramming because I just don't get how a maneuver that gets one killed can be otherwise described.

And, if I may, I am certainly not the only poster so far in this thread who has pointed out that others should learn from this example what NOT to do in combat.

When speaking of 'inadvisable maneuvers' you said "...I am evidently in need of some serious reprogramming because I just don't get how a maneuver that gets one killed can be otherwise described..."

Iraq crash caused by failed maneuver

Accident investigation shows unsuccessful strafing run on Nov. 27 led to pilot's death

By Lisa Burgess, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Wednesday, April 4, 2007

ARLINGTON, Va. — Maj. Troy “Trojan” Gilbert was riding the razor’s edge on Nov. 27 when he flew his F-16 Fighting Falcon into battle to help U.S. ground forces that were pinned down by insurgents.

A highly skilled pilot, he pulled off an amazing strafing run against fleeing bandits on a highway.

But when the 34-year-old Gilbert tried the same maneuver a second time, he was so intent on his target he lost track of how close he was to the ground, according Air Force Brig. Gen. David L. Goldfein.

Gilbert’s focus and intensity on the enemy cost him his life, according to Goldfein, the head of the accident investigation board into the crash and commander of the 49th Fighter Wing.

Goldfein briefed reporters Monday on the official results of the Air Force investigation into the crash. Gilbert had been deployed to Iraq from Luke Air Force Base, Ariz., where he was as the 332nd Expeditionary Operations Group chief of standardization and evaluation.

On that day, Gilbert’s 10th mission since coming to Iraq, he was one of two F-16s tasked to provide surveillance and reconnaissance in support of ground forces — a relatively routine flight for Air Force jets in Iraq, according to Air Force officials.

“Very often in Iraq, a mission will turn from very benign to very intense” in a matter of moments, Goldfein said. About three hours in, one of the coalition helicopters that Gilbert was supporting was forced down 20 miles north of Baghdad.

Then ground forces securing the helicopter came under attack. Gilbert was told to destroy enemy vehicles fleeing up a highway while his wingman returned to a tanker aircraft to refuel.

Gilbert made several runs to positively identify the vehicle, then ducking “down to the deck” — flying less than 200 feet from the ground — he rolled in on a classic strafing run.

“His attack destroyed the lead vehicle,” Goldfein said.

Gilbert then yanked his joystick back, experiencing six Gs of gravitational pull as the F-16 screamed back into the sky. After he recovered from his first pass, he decided to make a second using exactly the same approach.

Goldfein said the only difference between the first and second attempts was that on the second try Gilbert was so focused on his target he forgot about the ground entirely.

According to data recovered from the F-16’s electronic black box, Gilbert had less than one second between the time he pulled back on the stick and the time his jet hit the ground.

“In my opinion, he never knew what happened” Goldfein said.

Two F-16s were sent “to keep an eye on the crash site,” along with a Predator unmanned aerial vehicle, Goldfein said. But because Gilbert was clearly dead and coalition troops were still under attack, all available combat assets were sent into the fight rather than the recovery site.

It wasn’t until 7 p.m. that evening that a Marine force got to the downed jet. An Army unit quickly followed.

But by the time the troops got to the site, it was too late. There was no trace of Gilbert.

“It’s likely the insurgents removed the body,” Goldfein said, “and to this day, we do not know” what happened to his remains.

The Air Force continues to search for Gilbert in Iraq, with progress on his case briefed to commanders daily, Goldfein said.

Gilbert was posthumously awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross with Valor.

After reconsidering everything, I think it was more a case of 'bad taste'/'bad timing', than any specific use of offensive words. I suggest we put his behind us and move on?

Maj. Troy Gilbert's life epitomized the core value of Service before Self. Whether flying the F-16, spending time with his family, or helping with a church function, he gave unselfishly of himself to serve and protect others.

Such was the case on Nov. 27, 2006, the day Major Gilbert was killed in action protecting others. The 12-year Air Force veteran was assigned to the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing at Balad Air Base, Iraq. He had already completed 21 combat sorties in the F-16 supporting ground forces under enemy fire. On one mission, he found and identified anti-Iraqi forces, then passed critical targeting information to coalition forces, who attacked and eliminated the threat. In another time-sensitive mission, Major Gilbert destroyed 10 insurgents concealed in a palm grove with the pinpoint delivery of a laser-guided weapon.

On the day he died, Major Gilbert heroically led a flight of two F-16s in an aerial combat mission near Taji, Iraq. On the ground, insurgents were unleashing truck-mounted heavy machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, small arms fire and mortars to attack coalition troops. In addition, a downed Army helicopter crew was in danger of being overrun. Engaging the enemy meant certain anti-aircraft fire for Major Gilbert, but despite the danger, he went after the insurgents. He launched a strafing attack against the truck, destroying it with his 20-millimeter Gatling gun.

Despite enemy fire, Major Gilbert continued to press the insurgents with a second strafing pass at extreme low-level to help save the lives of the helicopter crew and other ground forces. He lost his life on that strafing pass when his aircraft hit the ground.

Major Gilbert's final act of moral and physical courage was conducted selflessly, just as he had always lived his life.

Source: http://www.af.mil/specials/pic/gilbert.htm