Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

The F-16 has proven itself to be one of the most remarkable piece of equipment flying in the sky, but what about its Soviet chief rival Mig-29?

What will be the concequenses of these 2 planes meeting head-to-head?

Also who is better? Fster? and had a better history than the other?

What are your opinions?

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Head-to-head? I'm partial but I have to go with the Viper. Some Fulcrum drivers say setting up weapons employment in the Fulcrum is a bit cumbersome (switches to flip, knobs to turn, etc), unlike the Viper's Dogfight/Missile Override "flip-n-fight" function that buys you a couple of extra seconds or more in an engagement.

On the flip side American pilots who have gotten Fulcrum backseat rides have stated it's manueverability is on-par with the Hornet (which is a compliment to a hydro-mechanically operated FCS) and coupled with the "look-n-launch" A-A targeting system (I'm full of catch phrases today! Wink

) it could pose problems for the Viper in a close-in knife fight. This will be effectively negated with the fielding of HMCS and AIM-9X in the Viper and F-35 fleets.

In any case it bears repeating: in any close match-up between evenly matched airframes the deciding factors will almost always be who sees who first and the skill and training of the pilots involved.

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

Hi Karim,

comparsion was never my cup of tea. I thought one must really be equipped with the best knowledge on the 2 subjects and agree upon a base line of criterions, and to finally come to an unbiased comparsion. Not a very easy task.

Having said this, I hope the following article is able to satisfy most if not all of your queries on the 2 platforms. The article was documented some time back. Hence the latest blocks might not be taken into account. In addition, it is a shame, the links referenced are not longer active.

enjoy, Very Happy

Thanks, that's a nice article!

Pumpkin wrote:

Hi Karim,

Having said this, I hope the following article is able to satisfy most if not all of your queries on the 2 platforms. The article was documented some time back.
enjoy, Very Happy

I have to disagree with the article…pictures and video speak a thousand words. We deployed to Denmark to fly against some West German MIG 29’s and the following video speaks 1000 words…The video was made some years back, but the Viper has become nothing but better...

http://www.f16techs.com/greatest_hits.htm

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

hi wetsock,

nice extract of the HUD recording. Some pretty cool EEGS symbology!!

As for the article, I was merely making a reference. Cool

Not really advocating the content. If you have noticed, it is a .ru site. I guess I will leave for the experts on this forum to decide, if the webmaster has presented an unbiased writing.

cheers, Very Happy

Pumpkin

I am by far no expert...I can only comment on what I see...I was merely giving my .02 worth. I am curious to see what other feedback comes up... Very Happy

Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless. If you want to form an opinion about such comparisons, do some research first. This article is a good first step: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... 2a_95.html

awetsock wrote:

I have to disagree with the article…pictures and video speak a thousand words. We deployed to Denmark to fly against some West German MIG 29’s and the following video speaks 1000 words…The video was made some years back, but the Viper has become nothing but better...

http://www.f16techs.com/greatest_hits.htm

Outstanding! Cool

Especially at about 5:30-ish: pipper on the cockpit...you're DEAD!! Twisted Evil

You actualy get paid to do that? Wink

habu2 wrote:

Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless. If you want to form an opinion about such comparisons, do some research first. This article is a good first step: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... 2a_95.html

What better way to research than to pull the AVTR tapes out and watch the video 15 minutes after it was filmed? There is nothing better than hands on research... Wink

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

habu2, I guess what I enjoy reading and can't agree more was Rose Smith's Introduction. Where he mentioned about pilot skill/training, and the customised technical strength, export version can provide, in a decisive fight. Hence we can never have 1 conclusive comparsion.

The two different outcomes of the RMAF Mig 29 in simulated BVR air combats with 2 different platforms clearly indicated this.
[1] RMAF Mig-29 Vs RAAF F-18
[2] RMAF Mig-29 Vs RAF Sea Harriers

The Code One article was informative indeed. If only we could have a similar report on the USAF Viper Vs the (Indian) IAF Fulcrum, if there were such a fight in the Cope 2004 Indo-US Exercise. I would like to believe, the IAF is operating one of the best Fulcrum to date.

cheers, Very Happy

Early MiG-29 BVR cockpit switchology/setup is a joke. Match that with the shakey combat record of the R-27 and you are asking to get killed setting up a BVR shot.

MiG-29 Early-

-Nice WVR
-Sux in BVR
-An A2G comparison would be a joke
-Supply chain management could use "the customer is always right" approach.

Later MiG-29s? Well they have caught up to the early 90's for A2G. ( being generous here )
Newer R-27 might give some hope, R77 still unproven but should be good in Chinese or Indian hands ( i.e. someone that has a well funded aerospace industry )

Quote:

Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless.

What I meant by that was when someone starts a thread with "which is better" or "which is faster" or "which flies higher" or "which would win a dogfight" etc. Sorry KarimAbdoun, I'm not attacking you personally.

BTW the most remarkable piece of equipment I ever saw flying in the sky was a certain stewardess I remember from a commercial flight years ago.... Mr. Green

Cool video. Now I have to wash out the music in Premier before I add it to my archives Wink

I'd rather hear the original audio in HUD tapes. Don't worry. The music was less annoying then most corporate videos from the big weapons makers. Very Happy

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

MiG-29 vs F-16