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F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2847

I was curious if some of the USAF drivers could answer this one. ( Not interested in tactics ) .

How much of the USAF Viper community do actual CAS training with grunts? ( G-FACs ) Do certain squadrons pick that up as a speciality or does everybody get a good chance in their training schedule to work on this? Are ( in your opinion ) things getting better with CAS and is the customer ( the grunt ) happy with USAF support?

Just curious. I have seen a bunch of public consumption success stories out there. I did see one disturbing comment from a USMC source that some USMC G-FACs get a little worried when they see an A-10 ( because of its frat record ( and yes I know you can't stop all frats if ever ) )

Thanks,

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Until everybody goes to the same system as the Marines, they will never be as good. In Marine Aviation you fly for 5 years, then your tasked as a G-FAC for 5 years. So you know what its like to slog threw the mud and get shot at with the boys when your back up in that plane. And you know exactly how to inturpret what they're asking cause youve been there and you've seen it. Even the Army will tell you (if you ask really nicely) when it comes to CAS theyd rather see Marine Hornets, Harriers, and Cobras then anything else.

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 28, 2004 Posts: 47 Status: Offline

elp,

Here's my perspective having been in 2 units that take CAS seriously. My disclaimer is that I think the concept of CAS is rapidly changing following OIF and OEF, which I didn't take part in. Anyone who did will probably take exception to what I'm about to say and I would love to hear it. But here's my 2 cents...

Quote:

Do certain squadrons pick that up as a speciality or does everybody get a good chance in their training schedule to work on this?

Can't speak to every Viper squadron in the CAF, but it's a pretty safe bet that any F-16 unit flying with targeting pods will conduct at least SOME CAS training. It depends on the squadron as to how aggressively they push the training and how hard they work at making it realistic. In general, I would say that any Blk-40 unit does a fair amount of CAS and they are very proficient at it. Let me just stop short any Blk-50, B-1, or B-52 driver who claims that dropping JDAM qualifies as CAS, that's for another discussion.

Quote:

How much of the USAF Viper community do actual CAS training with grunts? ( G-FACs )

Again, it depends on the unit. But the units who do serious CAS will deploy to exercises like Air Warrior and Air Warrior II once every few years for some great training. In the end, probably 1/2 of the CAS training sorties are flown using G-FACs and TACPs (in my experience). In Korea almost every CAS sortie is flown with live TACPs and Korean controllers.

Quote:

Are ( in your opinion ) things getting better with CAS and is the customer ( the grunt ) happy with USAF support?

Can't speak to customer satisfaction. There will probably be some good lessons learned coming out of OIF and Afghanistan. Whether or not it's releasable, I don't know. CAS is constantly evolving in an effort to get all the services reading from the same sheet of music, but I think it's safe to say that for CAS to be effective has less to do with the airframe, and everything to do with how the two parties (ground and air) are able to communicate to get the iron on bad guys craniums. That takes practice on both sides.

As far as being happy with USAF support, I doubt any grunt in need of airpower would turn away an F-16 in the hopes something else would come along, but maybe that's just me.

Push it UP!
Burn

We are down the street from Ft. Hood here in Ft. Worth so we do fly CAS quite often with the ARMY. Since we are both up with SADL, it makes things a little easier.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2847

Thanks guys.

Also what Lawman said about the USMC. I think it is happening now but in a perfect world we need to make sure all the Marine jets get a minimum of LITENING II type of pod ( Harriers are starting to get some ). USAF is starting to go after the most excellent SNIPER-XR,.. which I would prefer to see some funding so USMC gets that top notch pod also.

Another wish list would be for the A-10. They have started putting nice pods on a small number of them for OIF ( LITENING ) and now are looking at making SNIPER XR part of that community if the funding is good. Doing some very un-A-10 kind of work. If it was me for the forward basing we find A-10s in... in the future it would be nice to look at PAVEWAY IV and/or Enhanced PAVEWAY for the GBU-12 setup. This makes it a dual use weapon ( GPS / INS ) OR LGB depending on how you want to use it. Seeing as the GBU-12 is a very handy weapon, it would make supply of a crummy location A-10 base much easier by having a dual use weapon on hand.

BTW- I did read some USAF G-FAC stories of where they used the JDAM repeatedly in a CAS like environment with great life saving effect. So what ever works and gets the job done. The one famous OIF B-52 CBU-105 story ( a GPS assisted container with Sensor Fused Weapons (SFW "skeets" ) helping out the USMC is funny yet highly successful and life saving. ) So we are employing some very new style ways of thinking and getting the job done as Burn mentioned.

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