Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Hi all, this is my first time posting here...So here goes.

I'm doing my final year of my Aeronautical Engineering Degree at Sydney University (Australia). One of the courses involves building a computer model and analyzing it from a structural point of view.

What I want to look at is the flutter characteristics of F-16's wings at various missile configurations (at Station 1 and 9...wingtips with no missiles, then with Sidewinders, and then with AMRAAMs).

The two problems that come to mind are...

Where or how do I get the data needed (dimensions) to build the F-16 model?
How thick are the fins and wings of the AIM-120A AMRAAM?
(I've already got the dimensions, but don't have the thicknesses of the wings and fins. )

The structural analysis software can read AutoCAD files (.DXF), but that's all I know.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks for your time.

F-16.net Sponsor

Salute! Welcome aboard

I have the original dimensions, but no scanner.

I may be willing to go down street to a store and scan them in. FOR A PRICE!!!!

In other words, be real nice to this old codger.

Meanwhile I'll look around and see if we got online sources. Habu brothers and ELP may be able to help.

out

Wow that is a dead on topic for F-16 stuff. I read an article a few years ago about USAF doing testings on a software patch on F-16s that did just that. It minimized the effects of wing flutter on the jet vs. different types of munitions load outs.

F-16 testers evaluate flutter suppression system
http://www.edwards.af.mil/archive/1999/ ... utter.html

You might be able to get some info from the contractor that did that work if the work isn't some kind of company secret or classified. I'm not an engineer. I am just a information / "connect the dots" kinda person.

Some interesting reading: (these people below might have all the consultation you will need ..... don't know )

"Flutter in the Sky"

http://www.psc.edu/science/farhat.html (also including a PDF file )

Researchers Charbel Farhat, University of Colorado, Boulder
Hardware TCSini
Software AERO
Related Material
on the Web Center for Aerospace Structures, University of Colorado at Boulder
References Charbel Farhat, "CFD-Based Prediction of the Aeroelastic Behavior of High-Performance Aircraft: Toward a Change in Culture" (2001), preprint.
Production
Credits Writing: Michael Schneider
HTML Layout/Coding: R. Sean Fulton
© Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center (PSC)
Revised: November 9, 2001

http://www.psc.edu/science/Farhat/flutt ... e_sky.html

A Historical Overview of Flight Flutter Testing

PDF file -
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/DTRS/1995/PDF/H-2077.pdf

Also some cool F-16 specific info from the horses mouth of the maintainers is on this forum also ( forget the thread ) but the troops started having wing fuel tank problems over time on the F-16 because of the AMRAAM being on stations 1 & 9. The effect would be that the flutter would ruin a certain type of fitting for the fuel tank, requiring the jet to be down till it was fixed ( don't know what Blocks this affected and I don't know what the final word / fix was on it )

stmok wrote:

What I want to look at is the flutter characteristics of F-16's wings at various missile configurations (at Station 1 and 9...wingtips with no missiles, then with Sidewinders, and then with AMRAAMs).

The two problems that come to mind are...

Where or how do I get the data needed (dimensions) to build the F-16 model?
How thick are the fins and wings of the AIM-120A AMRAAM?
(I've already got the dimensions, but don't have the thicknesses of the wings and fins. )

The structural analysis software can read AutoCAD files (.DXF), but that's all I know.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks for your time.

Other than articles, I am not sure if a CAD file is availible to the public for programs like that. I was on 2 flutter evaul programs when I was at Falcon CTF (Edwards) and saw most he data analysis, but not any cad files. Mostly on my part was hands on on the flgiht line.

I do remember that most of the flutter problems were when LAU-129 rails (w/AIM-120 or AIM9) were on Sta. 1 & 9 and GBU 10 and/or the equiliant of MK.84's were slung undernieth. We even went as far to replace the LAU-129 nose with a "Wedge" type nose, but that did not really help any. Eventually, some new software uploads to the DFLCC were done that helped suppress the flutter osilation and the rest, the F-16 would just have to live with.

Mike V

Gums wrote:

Salute! Welcome aboard

I have the original dimensions, but no scanner.

I may be willing to go down street to a store and scan them in. FOR A PRICE!!!!

In other words, be real nice to this old codger.

Meanwhile I'll look around and see if we got online sources. Habu brothers and ELP may be able to help.

out

Thanks!

I'll be really really really nice. Very Happy

Because if I'm able to build the model and do an approximate analysis, I can post some cool pictures for you all, I'll put it on my webspace for you all to save and keep as a gift. Very Happy

(I'll remove any indication of measurement or indications that may reveal too much, but leave the cool and colourful picture. Send us a Private Message if you can get them scanned...I like to "prep" them to figure out the best way to build a "mesh" (hundreds or thousands) of "bricks" for analysis.)

I'm still looking around on the web, but not much success, I found some mechanical drawings of the AIM-9M Sidewinder from an Home/enthusiasts rocket site, and some hand measured dimensions of a AIM-120A AMRAAM, but no fin and wing thicknesses...Does anyone who's handled one know, roughly? ( It can be in inches or milimetres or centimetres, I'm flexible and accept either forms of measurements Smile

).

elp:

Thanks for the links...I made several attempts to contact the researcher who did that diagram you show, but I got no response at all. (I'm assuming there's some sort of contract he had to sign that prevented him from revealing any important info.)

The diagram you show is of the various airflow speeds on the F-16 surfaces...The one I'm hoping to get is of structure, so it will have some "funky-ness" when I add missiles and such. It should be a pretty picture for all. Smile

ViperEnforcer (Mike V):

Yeah, that's what I was thinking regarding CAD diagrams. ( And that's why I'm here. I saw a few posts in this forum, which are quite interesting, so I decided to chance it and see if anyone has specific info I'm looking for. Smile

)

So, to solve the flutter issue, what was done was to modify the flight computer (through software updates) and provide some restrictions (in certain flight regimes), to reduce flutter?

Fascinating...I didn't know the system in the F-16 was that flexible! Smile

* Minor Update *

So far...

I've found many 3-view diagrams (alot of them from Russian sites)
A source for the F-16 flight manual (which I don't know what's inside, since there's no sample page I can look at)...Could be useful for the flight sim I'm working on here at University...
A scanned picture that looks like what I'm looking for, but its blurred and hard to read. (Sooo close! But no cigar.)

Can anyone else provide a suggestion?
Pretty please. Smile

Perhaps this can be of a little help? D models in MAX, 3DS, Maya and Lightwave formats:

http://www.meshfactory.com/cgi-bin/shop/catalog.cgi -> search for F-16

Good try, but the FEA program can't read those formats...I'll need at least a lined drawing of the external shape in DXF format, then I can use it to create meshes for FEA analysis. (FEA = Finite Element Analysis).

stmok wrote:

Gums wrote:

Salute! Welcome aboard

I have the original dimensions, but no scanner.

I may be willing to go down street to a store and scan them in. FOR A PRICE!!!!

In other words, be real nice to this old codger.

Meanwhile I'll look around and see if we got online sources. Habu brothers and ELP may be able to help.

out

Thanks!

I'll be really really really nice. Very Happy

Because if I'm able to build the model and do an approximate analysis, I can post some cool pictures for you all, I'll put it on my webspace for you all to save and keep as a gift. Very Happy

(I'll remove any indication of measurement or indications that may reveal too much, but leave the cool and colourful picture. Send us a Private Message if you can get them scanned...I like to "prep" them to figure out the best way to build a "mesh" (hundreds or thousands) of "bricks" for analysis.)

I'm still looking around on the web, but not much success, I found some mechanical drawings of the AIM-9M Sidewinder from an Home/enthusiasts rocket site, and some hand measured dimensions of a AIM-120A AMRAAM, but no fin and wing thicknesses...Does anyone who's handled one know, roughly? ( It can be in inches or milimetres or centimetres, I'm flexible and accept either forms of measurements Smile

).

elp:

Thanks for the links...I made several attempts to contact the researcher who did that diagram you show, but I got no response at all. (I'm assuming there's some sort of contract he had to sign that prevented him from revealing any important info.)

The diagram you show is of the various airflow speeds on the F-16 surfaces...The one I'm hoping to get is of structure, so it will have some "funky-ness" when I add missiles and such. It should be a pretty picture for all. Smile

ViperEnforcer (Mike V):

Yeah, that's what I was thinking regarding CAD diagrams. ( And that's why I'm here. I saw a few posts in this forum, which are quite interesting, so I decided to chance it and see if anyone has specific info I'm looking for. Smile

)

So, to solve the flutter issue, what was done was to modify the flight computer (through software updates) and provide some restrictions (in certain flight regimes), to reduce flutter?

Fascinating...I didn't know the system in the F-16 was that flexible! Smile

We tested flutter at Eglin AFB Florida, 3246th Test Wing. If you could get hold of them, you may get some info. The wings and fins are only about one (1) centimeter thick. You can ask some of my fellow crew chiefs as they split their heads open on occasion. They are very sharp, so don't think one cm is too thin. I am sitting next to a 20 year weapons troop and his analysis is the thickness of your little finger.
Hope this helps.
Ciao

LeeRichardson wrote:

stmok wrote:

Gums wrote:

Salute! Welcome aboard

I have the original dimensions, but no scanner.

I may be willing to go down street to a store and scan them in. FOR A PRICE!!!!

In other words, be real nice to this old codger.

Meanwhile I'll look around and see if we got online sources. Habu brothers and ELP may be able to help.

out

Thanks!

I'll be really really really nice. Very Happy

Because if I'm able to build the model and do an approximate analysis, I can post some cool pictures for you all, I'll put it on my webspace for you all to save and keep as a gift. Very Happy

(I'll remove any indication of measurement or indications that may reveal too much, but leave the cool and colourful picture. Send us a Private Message if you can get them scanned...I like to "prep" them to figure out the best way to build a "mesh" (hundreds or thousands) of "bricks" for analysis.)

I'm still looking around on the web, but not much success, I found some mechanical drawings of the AIM-9M Sidewinder from an Home/enthusiasts rocket site, and some hand measured dimensions of a AIM-120A AMRAAM, but no fin and wing thicknesses...Does anyone who's handled one know, roughly? ( It can be in inches or milimetres or centimetres, I'm flexible and accept either forms of measurements Smile

).

elp:

Thanks for the links...I made several attempts to contact the researcher who did that diagram you show, but I got no response at all. (I'm assuming there's some sort of contract he had to sign that prevented him from revealing any important info.)

The diagram you show is of the various airflow speeds on the F-16 surfaces...The one I'm hoping to get is of structure, so it will have some "funky-ness" when I add missiles and such. It should be a pretty picture for all. Smile

ViperEnforcer (Mike V):

Yeah, that's what I was thinking regarding CAD diagrams. ( And that's why I'm here. I saw a few posts in this forum, which are quite interesting, so I decided to chance it and see if anyone has specific info I'm looking for. Smile

)

So, to solve the flutter issue, what was done was to modify the flight computer (through software updates) and provide some restrictions (in certain flight regimes), to reduce flutter?

Fascinating...I didn't know the system in the F-16 was that flexible! Smile

We tested flutter at Eglin AFB Florida, 3246th Test Wing. If you could get hold of them, you may get some info. The wings and fins are only about one (1) centimeter thick. You can ask some of my fellow crew chiefs as they split their heads open on occasion. They are very sharp, so don't think one cm is too thin. I am sitting next to a 20 year weapons troop and his analysis is the thickness of your little finger.
Hope this helps.
Ciao

Ok, thanks for the useful info! That's one problem solved (regarding AMRAAMs)...Now to look into contacting the Test Wing.

Hi Stmok firstly I can't help you at this moment. [Link pending approval] But I request you to share your documents with [Link pending approval] I am doing my final year of my Aeronautical Engineering at Istanbul Technical University(Turkey). And this documents will be very helpful for my graditional project (about statical analysis of harizontal tail). Maybe I will help to you about any subject [Link pending approval]

If it is possible for you you may mail these documents to these addreses.
ozarslan99@[Link pending approval]

It sounds like you haven't done enough research and expect someone else to do it for you so you can hand your project in on time.

I've been tricked many times like this, then someone takes credit for my hard work and time spent. (This is what happened when I did team-based assignments in the past).

I don't have the information you're looking for as the drawings I have are external ones, nothing on the inside. (Its for the outside shape of the plane).

I am not mailing you anything as I've spent over three weeks doing the research.

I've finally found what I needed for my assignment, thanks to the people here and various other places. I just have to figure how to read the drawings correctly, and to implement it into the PC for analysis. It'll take a few weeks...But when its done I'll post the picts for the folks here to see.

Forum: F-16 Design & Construction

Dimensions of the F-16 for structural analysis?