Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Concerning the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC_uuynsJsc
I was a personal eye witness to that event and in fact, I was right on the beach
parallel to the Raptor as it pulled into the vertical. There was no question that
the jet was in blower (may be full afterburner) as he rose vertically very
quickly due to the near deafening sound the jet was making. It was LOUD,
that video does not do any justice to that fact. As is typical there, there was
a prevailing South/South Westerly wind such that the jet was actually being
blown North; that is, once the Raptor had gone into basically a pure vertical
attitude, the wings were producing no more lift, while the airframe and structures
made a large wind sail! I watched it drift in a Northerly direction from the wind,
while the twin F119 motors were trying their best to sound like a space shuttle
launch! checksixx is correct in his observations IMO regarding the Raptor's ability
to just drift down vertically, while in full control; it certainly appeared as if the
jet was able to do this (at least for awhile). I am sure that a Raptor with may be
10K or less worth of fuel could maintain a hover in a pure vertical attitude for
sometime with both F119s in maximum afterburner.

Lol...now I'm instantly wrong. Doesn't surprise me coming from you.

Anywho, for those who care, I posted a quote from Dozer quite a long time ago in which he was asked about the subject being discussed. He stated that at lower airspeed the engines don't put out the full rating of thrust (I think we all know this already). Further he stated that while the jet would start decending, it was so controlable that he could literally hold the jets nose in the vertical all the way to the ground.

For those who care to know, I'm currently working in Kuwait and don't have a lot of time to respond...which is why i short answered this before. Don't like my answer? Track down Michael 'Dozer' Shower or the former F-22 Demo Pilot Paul 'Max' Moga, who is still at Langley I believe and email them. I personally could care less if anyone here takes my word for it or not.

Cheers - Check

Ok, i understand that limited airflow don't allow to get maximun thrust ftom engines in that condition.
Does is this true for any engine or just for the ones optimized for high speed performance?
Even Su37 or a EF2K wouldn't be able to hang on their A/B ?

Su's have a very hard time with T/W because they are so large and so heavy. The more advanced ones weigh around 20 tons empty. The Raptor on the other hand weighs ~17 tons and have stronger engines. Of course I am not counting fuel weight as these airshow maneuvers do not utilize the 10 tons and 9 tons of fuel that they carry, respectively. Also, dont forget that when hovering you lose the dynamic aspect of thrust so your output is limited to ~80% +- 5% of the rated thrust. the ability of the raptor to sit on its tail relatively motionless, even for just a few seconds before pitching over shows a MASSIVE amount of power and controll available.

Amazing how the same power output that is in the blackbird was strapped into the raptor... a fighter.... if the blackbird could fly at confirmed speeds of mk3.2 how can the raptor not achieve 3.5 even if not just a dash...

i would also assume that the raptor flies the airshow routine with more than a 1/4 tank afterall its such a demanding flight profile that its mostly flown in A/B... i could be wrong... is there such a thing as a fuel coservative A/B or do we go for max preformance with in safety design limits? im aware of zone 1 -5 but i would think alot of this flight profile requires full power petal to the metal i mean composite srry...

The difference lies in how fast it can go faster. The F-22 probably has the best acceleration of a plane in it's weight class - and apparently it is comparable to an F-16 I read many times how the chase F-16 had to go into AB to keep up with the Raptor, whether this is due to the Vipers carrying bags is debatable, but anyhow, the plane sure can go.

Accelerating through Mach in military power in the Raptor feels similar to accelerating in full afterburner in an F-15. The Raptor accelerates in full afterburner in one continuous-speed feed. A slight buffet occurs between about Mach 0.97 and 1.08. After that point and to max speed, the aircraft accelerates smoothly and continuously.

...

The best seat in the house for supercruise is from a chase F-16 or F-15. Remember, we fly both these chase jets with just a centerline fuel tank to give them a fighting chance to play with the Raptor. Still, the F-22 usually leaves these aerodynamically “slick” chase airplanes in the dust. The F100-110, -129, and -229-powered F-16s don’t fall very far behind the Raptor in the initial acceleration through Mach. But the race is really no contest at the higher Mach numbers and once on cruise conditions. Nothing can sustain supersonic conditions with the persistence of a Raptor. Load those chase F-16s and F-15s with combat-representative stores and they would not stay with the Raptor during acceleration or sustained cruise.