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Enthusiast Joined: Sep 02, 2006 Posts: 31 Status: Offline

cru wrote:

-for your information, the air-to-air IR system is called IRST (Infra Red Search and Track. FLIR is Forward-Looking Infra Red and is an air-to-ground targeting device.

For your information, OSF is made of two independant channels : an IRST for air-to-air and an IR/near IR TV channel for tracking and imaging (that is a FLIR) for both air-to-air and air-to-ground operations, the main purpose of which being to provides positive ID of air targets beyond AAM range.

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Here we go again.. Rolling Eyes

....Do you people get this angry at your wives/husdbands when you're arguing about what to have for dinner? Rediculous....

Elite 2K Joined: May 13, 2004 Posts: 2945 Location: Utah

This is better then going to the movies, I just need popcorn and a drink Beer

This thread is an all-in-one comical show: the Muppets, Beavis & Butthead, The Bundy family, the Young Ones (UK), Zahal (IDF), Yeah Danny Halutz, also here we have a lot of Aleihum ve Alkifah ve Balagan (rioting & fight & rubbish) you name it. We could make some good money out of it.

The F-22/ F-35 Euro-canards: not what we were hoping for?
The answer will be given in the future, maybe it will happen sooner than we imagine.

But Niels Bohr once said: prediction is very difficult, especially about the future (what a cliche).
Or Ronald Reagan's: if you are afraid of the future, then get out of the way.
Ironic pessimists in the Middle East say: Do not worry about tomorrow, for who knows what's going to happen today.

Shana Tova,

Thanks for your advice and compassion Meathook about PTSS.

Now its time for a Romeo y Jullieta cigar and a Bacardi rum....

Hey, Shana Tova to you as well!

Regarding Sampaix, yes, one must not mess with him. He is so smart and informed that reading his posts I cannot understand a single word. Must be a genius...

Sorry - I've been watching this for awhile and it does seem fairly comical. I can't & won't get into a Raptor discussion any more than this.

I've fought Raptors - they killed me and my wingmen quickly and then they killed us again. I had no restrictions placed on me. The jet & their pilots are that good. If you want more specifics then just wait until the next war.

VprWzl wrote:

Sorry - I've been watching this for awhile and it does seem fairly comical. I can't & won't get into a Raptor discussion any more than this.

I've fought Raptors - they killed me and my wingmen quickly and then they killed us again. I had no restrictions placed on me. The jet & their pilots are that good. If you want more specifics then just wait until the next war.

Long time, no hear VprWzl. If you've been gone a while, glad to see you back.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 41 Status: Offline

2VprWzl

Very interresteing POW.

Now my question to you:

Would a totally passive BVR detection and engagement capabiltiy be helpfull is it had permited you to scan the same area THAN your usual EM sensor (dunno what radar you are actually equiped with and dont need to)and the same angles and angular rates?

Sorry sampaix I'm not jumping into that discussion

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 41 Status: Offline

No need to appologise, you're welcome not to, i understand and i appologise for askingh the question in the first place, i should have known better.

I guess we will figure that one out for ourself some time soon.

Maybe you could tell us in your own topic if you flew vs Mirage 2000 AD and 5Fs or even Typhoons if theree isn't any regs against this. (doubtfull in your case apparently).

Newbie Joined: Aug 31, 2006 Posts: 10 Status: Offline

@VprWzl

Excellent. I got into an argument else where about OPSEC, and you handled it perfectly by politely declining to discuss the topic.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 41 Status: Offline

About the use of IRST in A2A this was my question. If this gentleman is not in a position to comment due to his professional postion i can understand, i've been there although not as a pilot.

But my point remain unanswered, would not be the score a little different if the Raptor adversaries could actually engage and detect BVR them wihout the use of radar?

For the rest, nationality of the system is irrelevant too.

Quote:

For your information, OSF is made of two independant channels : an IRST for air-to-air and an IR/near IR TV channel for tracking and imaging (that is a FLIR) for both air-to-air and air-to-ground operations, the main purpose of which being to provides positive ID of air targets beyond AAM range.

I said myself that OSF is a dual mode (a-a and a-g). But the guy said:

Quote:

MICA IR can be coupled with OSF, used as FLIR and AAM tracking was reported to be up to 80 km in VWC.

which is a non-sense. A FLIR would not allow to track anything, but only to identify a target. Only an IRST can track.

Enthusiast Joined: Sep 20, 2006 Posts: 41 Status: Offline

@cru

If you define Forward Looking Infrared as a capability it's not such a nonsense in itself but you're only partly right technically, in fact MICA itsef can be used as FLIR but is coupled with OSF, an IRST.

Quote:

cru said myself that OSF is a dual mode (a-a and a-g).

Again, OSF have dual mode but is not preliminary designed for A2G.

There are newly developed pods (Damocles) for this particular role with vastly superior target lock and laser designation capabilities than OSF in the A2G role. So whatever you may say about OSF, is just like saying that F-22 is a dual role fighter when its real purpose is Air Dominance.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1034 Status: Offline

cru wrote:

A FLIR would not allow to track anything, but only to identify a target. Only an IRST can track.

You can track targets with a FLIR pod. Not sure as to why you would think otherwise??

-Check

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