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Based on the fact that the F-35 has no external means of Egress for pilots. Like the F-16 which has the locking mechanism that can be pushed from the outside the F-35 doesn't have such capability. It is still a debate in the Emergency Services wether or not the Det Cord in Canopies can be safely cut with a rescue saw. Any comments regarding such practice would be appreciated. Has anyone ever seen this done. any documented cases?

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Elite Joined: Aug 02, 2006 Posts: 942 Status: Offline

Well, if you are not in a hurry, you CAN cut through or dissamble the canopy. If you are in a hurry you blow the canopy apart and then either climb out of through the shattered canopy or eject the hell out of there!

If the pilot is unconcious and not able to unlock the canopy the only way in is to cut the canopy. Which current configuration has det cord run across the middle of the canopy with not external means of blowing the det cord.

A valid point, especially after reading the article about the poor pilot that had to sit in his Raptor cockpit for 5 hrs while the AFB Fire Dept cut him out after his canopy refused to open.

This is the article about the canopy failure that 174Cobra is referring to:

Pilot trapped in F-22 cockpit after canopy failure
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1768.html

And the report:

Stuck F-22 canopy caused by loose screws
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1815.html

stefaan

thanks for the link, Stefaan! Not to get off topic, but kinda makes one wonder if a subsequent ejection might have run into complications. I suppose the explosives woulda blown the canopy off as normal...

While there may not be a manual release, perhaps theyll have a digital one? The F-22A and F-35 will both have digitized maintenence systems that allow ground personnel to interact with the aircraft via computer.

Maybe an override can be used to pop the canopy via the ground crew's computer.

Elite Joined: Jul 30, 2005 Posts: 739 Status: Offline

not practical in emergency purposes.

Newbie Joined: Oct 02, 2006 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

Is the F-35 ending up with the emergency equivalent of a soft reboot button?

That gives me a bad feeling...

Although I am definitely a layman--please correct me if I'm getting it wrong! Sorry for a first post like this... it just kinda grabbed me Razz

I disagree with the whole idea of using det cord to shatter the canopy, to start with.

The fewer explosions that occur in close proximity to the pilot, the better!

I'm SURE the canopy frame will have some nice, jagged bits of plexiglas in them that are SURE
to take a big bite out of some pilot, sooner or later.

It should have been handled like the F-16, with the canopy being ejectable in one piece,
and with emergency egress methods available to the ground crew. (Grab handle, pull six
feet out, pray the canopy doesn't hit you on the way down.)

CJ

Newbie Joined: Oct 02, 2006 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

Can the det cord problem be solved the same way they provide safety with cars? I understand they make the front windscreen out of tough stuff to protect against impacts, but then make the side and rear portions out of a safety glass type material. This stuff provides very little impact protection, but it makes up for this by breaking without splintering; instead it just disintegrates into a zillion tiny cubes. This would avoid the gash problem, at least. And if it's like a car, the det cord wouldn't have to actually explode the canopy, just provide a sharp enough impact to start the glass breaking, at which point the glass would (should?) go to pieces on its own.

Maybe I'm just rambling... Smile

I had seen the actual video of the Canopy test on the Internet.... But I can not find it now. The question still remains whether or not the det cord can be cut without setting the cord off. I know it takes and electrical charge of some sort to detonate. The canopy does after detonation break into little pieces like tempered safety glass. I hope that the event will never occur that would take such action but its better to be safe than sorry. Initial first flight of the F-35 is scheduled in the next month or so, and preparation is important when it comes to the pilot and Firefighters lives.

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Wouldn't have have had this whole problem if the canopy had been hinged from the rear.......

Yes they would have - the det cord implementation is due to the ejection requirements in a hover condition.

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Really? Not sure about that. Zero/Zero systems have to be able to pop the canopy in a similar situation as hover. I worked with one of the design engineers and was told the reasons for the forward hinged canopy and the bow as well as the det cord. They had considered a jett system similar to the 104 (lateral opening but longitudinal jettison) but the weight and complexity penalty was too high. Originally they wanted a canopy just like the F-22. Canopy hinges forward so seat can be removed without pulling canopy. But you can't put cutters on armored canopy. So you have a birdstrike resistant forward section ahead of the bow and a thinner section for the main enclosure which can use cutters. I was told by this engineer that the whole thing was driven by the Navy and the USAF didn't want to go that way.

I was not in F-35 then (am now) and this is just what one of the design engineers told me.

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F-35 Emergency Canopy Access