F-16.net

Just curious;
The Viper usually carries a dummy sidewinder with a special head to make it more visible for the radars of civilian jets and air traffic controllers/radars. This is because the Viper has naturally very low radar signature from the design.

How can the F-35 do the same given the excellent stealth capabilities?
Will they fly it with one of the internal bay doors open and the missile rack extended with special winder on it, or can/will they mount missile rails on the wingtips and mount it there? (read somewhere that this could be done!)

Interesting question don`t you think Wink

F-16.net Sponsor

This message from our sponsor will disappear if you log on as a member.

Transponder ?

Yeah, transponder is a good solution Idea

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 Posts: 902

Lockheed Martin's very own Silent Sentry perhaps..

same thing they have done with the 117

The pilot has to wrap his helmet in aluminum foil..... Very Happy

Boman wrote:

Just curious;
The Viper usually carries a dummy sidewinder with a special head to make it more visible for the radars of civilian jets and air traffic controllers/radars. This is because the Viper has naturally very low radar signature from the design.

How can the F-35 do the same given the excellent stealth capabilities?
Will they fly it with one of the internal bay doors open and the missile rack extended with special winder on it, or can/will they mount missile rails on the wingtips and mount it there? (read somewhere that this could be done!)

Interesting question don`t you think Wink

Stealth fighter pilots are instructed to fly with the canopy open in civilian airspace holding up a large, basketball-sized metal sphere to increase the airplane's RCS. Also, the Raptor is equiped with a pylon on its spine to enable it to carry an F-15 piggy-back style so as to increase its RCS, kind of like the Shuttle on top of a 747.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1002 Status: Offline

akruse21 wrote:

same thing they have done with the 117

And B-2

And F-22

Quote:

idesof wrote: Stealth fighter pilots are instructed to fly with the canopy open in civilian airspace holding up a large, basketball-sized metal sphere to increase the airplane's RCS. Also, the Raptor is equiped with a pylon on its spine to enable it to carry an F-15 piggy-back style so as to increase its RCS, kind of like the Shuttle on top of a 747

....LMAO

idesof wrote: Stealth fighter pilots are instructed to fly with the canopy open in civilian airspace holding up a large, basketball-sized metal sphere to increase the airplane's RCS. Also, the Raptor is equiped with a pylon on its spine to enable it to carry an F-15 piggy-back style so as to increase its RCS, kind of like the Shuttle on top of a 747.

Nanoo Nanoo to you too.

I don't think this is an issue at all. The F-35 and F-22 will simply do what commerical airliners do -- actively broadcasr their own location (acquired via GPS or inertial means), altitude, vector and identity to whoever is interested. The audience includes civilian air traffic controls and other aircrafts in the air.

Boman wrote:

Just curious;
The Viper usually carries a dummy sidewinder with a special head to make it more visible for the radars of civilian jets and air traffic controllers/radars. This is because the Viper has naturally very low radar signature from the design.

How can the F-35 do the same given the excellent stealth capabilities?
Will they fly it with one of the internal bay doors open and the missile rack extended with special winder on it, or can/will they mount missile rails on the wingtips and mount it there? (read somewhere that this could be done!)

Interesting question don`t you think Wink

You're kidding right? Because this is absolutely not true. Vipers fly "naked" fairly frequently. In fact, most wingtip missiles in peace/training are just dead weight to prevent flutter.

While ATC radars are capable of "skin painting" and aircraft, they get no aircraft info that way. That is why aircraft carry transponders...not only do they they transmit a signal that is stronger than a skin return, but that signal includes ID and altitude. Even Stealthy jets have them for normal flying (because their skin return is in fact pretty small)

when we got a tour of the 117's at holl, the green suit showed us three small metal boxes that are attached to the top bottom and sides of the aircraft when flying in the states to return a better "skin" paint. The transponder does the real job though. Those boxes were there just in case.

Roscoe wrote:

You're kidding right? Because this is absolutely not true. Vipers fly "naked" fairly frequently. In fact, most wingtip missiles in peace/training are just dead weight to prevent flutter.

While ATC radars are capable of "skin painting" and aircraft, they get no aircraft info that way. That is why aircraft carry transponders...not only do they they transmit a signal that is stronger than a skin return, but that signal includes ID and altitude. Even Stealthy jets have them for normal flying (because their skin return is in fact pretty small)

Okay, all kidding aside. You have to remember that pinpointing aircraft location through a transponder is not the only issue. Stealth aircraft always have and always will mount signature-enhancing thingamajigs in civilian airspace not so much so that they may be found but so that no aircraft without a need to know could possibly get any kind of radar info on its true, unenhanced signature. Think of the Raptor, which has been doing the airshow circuit quite a lot lately. If all it carried was a transponder but no signature-enhacing dohickey, any "interested party" could set up their very own radar station adjacent to the airfield in question and get a pretty good picture of its radar return. That, of course, would be a no-no. Thus, whenever you see an F-117 or F-22, they always have either these pyramidal or cylindrical objects protruding from the top and bottom of the aircraft to enhance their signature. You know those agressor F-16s and F-16Ns with the pave-penny-like pods on station 5L (or 5R, can't remember)? Same purpose. Enhances the aircraft's naturally small radar signature to simulate that of a Mig-29 or Su-27.

I was in the F-22 program and have no clue of what you are talking about regarding cylindrical or pyramidal protrusions.....Same goes for what you are saying about the Agressor -16's...

F-16.net

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

F-35 and civilian air traffic - how will this be solved?