Forum: Air Power

Last edited by TC on Feb 18, 2004 - 02:05 AM; edited 1 time in total

Watching the movie Platoon again made me think of this. Maybe you Nam vets out there can help me with this one. The final battle scene in Platoon was a night engagement with the NVA. After heavy casualties on both sides, the Americans decide to end things by sending in an F-5 to drop (what looked to me like) napalm on the Vietnamese.

Was just wondering though, did we really do nighttime napalm runs in Nam? Considering the size of napalm explosions, the fact that the cansiters tumbled unguided, the lower visibility of nighttime flying, and the thick jungle to contend with, it would seem very reckless to drop napes at night, especially that close to our troops. Now, I know I'm trying to infuse logic into a Hollywood production (SOMEBODY STOP ME,) but seeing that scene made me wonder.

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Heh heh heh, TC

You're giving me flashbacks!

Yep, we dropped nape at night under the flares.

The low release alt was not a good idea with only moonlight, although I did drop CBU at night over the Trail using only moonlight when terrain was favorable.

We also had nape cans with fins on back to keep pointy end forward. This helped get most of the stuff through the tops of the trees. Didn't get that cool pattern on the ground, but what the hell!

The secret about nape was that it looked viscious, but it didn't do much unless the poor gomers were out in the open. Even then, they would dive to earth, hold breath and then start shooting at you again right outta the smoke. This is from the horse's mouth - ask others, especially the grunts who were two hundred meters away as we dropped. Now, if some of the gel hit you while still burning, then big problem. Stuff also worked neat on vehicles and structures. It was a super psychological weapon. Also great for the anti-war folks of all generations.

out,

USMC had to use a similar weapon in OIF. The reason I say similar is that it wasn't the same. Napalm was a different brew then the stuff used today. Caused a bit of a press fubar when the press weenies for OIF asked: "Are you using napalm?" The answer was: "No we are not" . Well they weren't. Its a different thing. ( dropped in an M77 ?? ) I guess todays stuff looks the same when it hits ?... and does the same job so the press pukes had a field day with that one. IMHO ask long as the weapon saves lives ( ours ) I'm all for it. The one story told to me by a USMC flyer; one case was it was used to silence a river bank during a bridge crossing. Got all quiet like after it hit Twisted Evil

Note to Loader: Draw up a design for a GPS/INS kit ( including optional Diamondback ) for these things Very Happy

elp, are you referring to AFEs?

Yes, Habu2, I believe that is the technical term for it nowadays, Fuel Air Explosive. Also, like Gums and ELP mentioned, civilian pukes (just picture Katie Couric, and Diane Sawyer) don't like to think that we use "napalm" as we saw from Nam. Also, like ELP mentioned, it's kinda the same, but not really the same, if you get my meaning. Oh yeah, BTW, keep picturing Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer...now, picture them naked!

My mistake - yes I was thinking of FAE, just had lysdexic figners... Embarassed

TC wrote:

picturing Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer...now, picture them naked!

And touching, and having a tickle fight....and....oooh...I'd better stop typing...

Aw man, you guys are COMPLETELY OUTTA CONTROL!!!!!!

I'm looking at Debra nowadays, and glad to see her back. After she stole Connie's eggs and had a baby, she looks like she went to a gym, got older, more mature. Very attractive now.......

Gotta go take my blue pill, now. You guys are getting to me!

Last edited by TC on Feb 18, 2004 - 08:33 AM; edited 1 time in total

Ah yes, Deborah Norville...mmm...I still have memories of waking up for grade school in the mid '80s (AW D@MMIT! Did I just date myself?) and seeing Deborah on NBC Early Morning News. Doesn't really look all that different either, except, she got rid of the '80s Big Hair. But seriously, Gums, were those night nape runs you made in the Dragonfly or the SLUF (or both?)

i'm quite smitten with Chris Jansing on MSNBC myself. . .

OK I am sure I will goof this somehow as I am not a munitions type.

FAEs are different than the M77 firebomb. M77 is ( 500lb ?? ) . Think of the M77 like a napalm bomb with fins but it isn't napalm now a days.

Don't know what FAEs are in service but they are a different animal and are a lot more complex and might fizzle on a real windy day. They kick out a fine mist ( ethylene oxide ? ) or some such thing into a big cloud and the detonator flys through it and sets it off. More of an over pressure thing where as an M77 is just fire.

Navy ord site: http://www.ordnance.org/firebomb.htm

Ask Loader about the munitions.

To my knowledge, there is nothing like the old nape.

New stuff makes a huge explosion, creates mucho overpressure, etc.

The old nape was easy to make and had a super psychological effect upon the friendlies and bad guys alike.

Answering the question: I only dropped nape in the A-7D at firepower demos. I dropped several hundred cans when flying the A-37.

later,

and I still vote for Debra!!!!

Yes, the "non-napes" of today don't stick like "real" napalm. Today, it's just a matter of an ignitor hitting the weapon's fuel source, and I would imagine we would also factor in kinetic energy, etc., etc. I don't know the mechanics, or physics of it, but I do know it makes a big boom when it hits what you aim for! A friend of mine who loaded in Nam said they used to call napalm "Baby Burners," as in "Burn Baby Burn!" LOL. Better keep the press away from that one! BTW, speaking of the press, nobody mentioned Laurie Dhue. She has major DSL, (and I DON'T mean her modem connection!) I'll let you guys think about that one for awhile...Oh yeah, was curious, does anyone remember a (I believe) European made CBU from the '80s called the HADES cluster bomb? Yeah, yeah, I know stupid @$$ Iron Eagle did that mess with the HADES bomb, but it was for real. I think the Americans tested it, but it was a no go over here. Anyone know about it, or what became of it? Oh well, I'm distracting myself. I'm still thinking of Laurie Dhue, and those lips that look like they got caught in a pool drain!

TC wrote:

Yes, the "non-napes" of today don't stick like "real" napalm. Today, it's just a matter of an ignitor hitting the weapon's fuel source, and I would imagine we would also factor in kinetic energy, etc., etc. I don't know the mechanics, or physics of it, but I do know it makes a big boom when it hits what you aim for! A friend of mine who loaded in Nam said they used to call napalm "Baby Burners," as in "Burn Baby Burn!" LOL. Better keep the press away from that one! BTW, speaking of the press, nobody mentioned Laurie Dhue. She has major DSL, (and I DON'T mean her modem connection!) I'll let you guys think about that one for [Link pending approval] yeah, was curious, does anyone remember a (I believe) European made CBU from the '80s called the HADES cluster bomb? Yeah, yeah, I know stupid @$$ Iron Eagle did that mess with the HADES bomb, but it was for real. I think the Americans tested it, but it was a no go over here. Anyone know about it, or what became of it? Oh well, I'm distracting myself. I'm still thinking of Laurie Dhue, and those lips that look like they got caught in a pool drain!

I can think of NO better example of dsl than that.

As far as Napalm, I was pretty sure that it was simply a different mix. TECHNICALLY, it's NOT napalm, which was polystyrene, gasoline and benzene. This stuff burns hotter, for twice as long, and is a liquid, not a jelly, so it spreads faster.

The commanders avoided the word "napalm", but the grunts still call it napalm because, it is, basically, a thick flammable, liquid incendiary, dropped from the air onto [Link pending approval]

As far as fuel air explosives [Link pending approval] are nasty. The same idiots that want cluster bombs banned want these banned too. Apparantly, it's ok to get shot to death, but having ones internal organs crushed by overpressure is just "wrong".

The "bad" thing about FAE is if they fail. The hydrocarbon fuels they contain tend to be both highly flammable and highly poisonous. So, if the detonator fails, you've just sprayed someone with a very nasty chemical weapon.

To see a VERY accurate simulation of a FAE, see the recent movie "Hulk". They drop one near him to try an kill him, very well done. It looks almost EXACTLY like the video of a test of a FAE I have seen online.

FAE tests (photos):

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/clmf/faeseq.html

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/clmf/faeship.html

Forum: Air Power

Nape Runs