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With the F-135-PW-100 making 43,000lbs of thrust and rumors of the F-136-GE-100 making 46,000lbs. Is it possible to fit either to the F-22 Raptor? Twisted Evil

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Enthusiast Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 49 Status: Offline

Possibly so, but the high bypass ratio of either of those two engines (~.5, I think) compared to the F119 would reduce the aircraft's high altitude performance. How significantly, I don't know.

It would be more interesting to consider the efficiency and perforamance benefits that the F120 would confer upon the F-22 were GE to develop the engine.

What is the current thrust rating for the F-119?

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1011 Status: Offline

Corsair1963 wrote:

With the F-135-PW-100 making 43,000lbs of thrust and rumors of the F-136-GE-100 making 46,000lbs. Is it possible to fit either to the F-22 Raptor? Twisted Evil

why would you want to? They aren't designed for the same envelope.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1011 Status: Offline

Corsair1963 wrote:

What is the current thrust rating for the F-119?

I've heard everything from "35,000lb thrust class" all the way to 43,184lbs thrust.

It's my understanding that the TVC nozzles on the F119 are an integral part, so I don't think the 135 would work.

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 12, 2005 Posts: 21 Status: Offline

Bad idea. The F136 puts out more sea level static thrust than the F119 because of it's higher bypass ratio - but at supersonic speed it would put out less thrust than the F119. You'd end up with an airplane that had a longer subsonic cruise range and could lift a bigger bombload off the runway - but supercruise performance would take a big hit.

Newbie Joined: Jun 12, 2006 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

If the F136 retains the variable cycle of the F-120 then it might be very interesting, as the F-120 provided both the YF-22 and YF-23 with higher cruise speed and better subsonic fuel consumption. As I understand it was not chosen because it was not as mature as the F-119.

Elite 2K Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 2612 Status: Offline

Corsair, the amount of thrust the F-22 produces is classified. It is rated, as Sferrin wrote, in the "35,000 lbs. of thrust class". The actual number, however, will not be disclosed for some time.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

dogma31 wrote:

If the F136 retains the variable cycle of the F-120 then it might be very interesting, as the F-120 provided both the YF-22 and YF-23 with higher cruise speed and better subsonic fuel consumption. As I understand it was not chosen because it was not as mature as the F-119.

Very interesting! I guess you learn something new everyday............so its at least possible we could see a F-22 making over 90,000lbs of thrust one day? (i.e over 45,000lbs per engine) TALK ABOUT TURN AND BURN! Cool

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1090

The F-22 probably does make over 45,000 lbs of thrust per engine... just not at static conditions. But that thing is no doubt putting out 45,000+ lbs of thrust at, say, Mach 1.2 and 5000 ft. Thrust increases with velocity (usually).

Where is all this evidence the F120 was superior to the F119? From what I've read, it had slightly better supercuise performance, but performed slightly worse in subsonic regimes.

skrip00 wrote:

Where is all this evidence the F120 was superior to the F119? From what I've read, it had slightly better supercuise performance, but performed slightly worse in subsonic regimes.

I think you need to go back to the competition between the YF-22 and YF-23 to win the ATF Contract. Both the P & W YF-119 and GE YF-120 were tested in both types with the YF-120 clearly offering higher performance.........yet in the end it was considered a higher rick and the P & W Design was sleceted in its place. Confused

Really, this is very similar to the current fight between P & W's F-100's and GE's F-110's......................with many preferring tha latters more powerful and reliable F-110! Twisted Evil

I did read up on it, and I really cant find anything saying that the F120 was decisively better. The only thing I found was that it had improved s/c performance... but the F119 was better suited at subsonic, transonic regimes with good performance in supercruise.

Enthusiast Joined: Oct 12, 2005 Posts: 21 Status: Offline

Don't forget that the YF119 was redesigned to increase thrust after contract award (20% bigger fan). So we really don't know how the production F119 compares to the YF120. And those who do know ain't talking.

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F-135 or F-136 Turbofans in the F-22?