Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Really, the US has no choice but to export the F-22! With only 183 aircraft and no money for more! Further, this would keep the production line open for a few more years and lowering the price of the venerable American Fighter. Thereby giving the USAF the option to purchase more aircraft down the road.................Japan would be ideal as a export customer for the F-22. Thereby providing extra aircraft for the defense of Southeast Asia. Wink

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Wrong. The US will buy all 350 it needs. It aint over until the fat lady sings. With current per unit costs at $100mil, the F-22A will be produced for many more years to come.

Wrong forum too.

US Goverment must NOT export F-22!

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US Goverment must NOT export F-22!

I agree but if they had to I'd say it would be to Israel. But again the US cant and wont do that.

What?!? You're crazy! Selling the F-22 would mean selling America's air domanice factor. Let's face it: as much as I love the F-16 the F-22 is the supreme bird in the sky. If we want to remind the strongest power in the world then we can't share our power with other countries. I know we would sell the F-22 to only our allies but at the same time that puts them on the same level as us. Until we build something that can defend the F-22 we can't share it with any other nation. It may mean that the plane will cost more but at the same time we're getting what we paid for and that's remaining the mightist Air Force in the world that no one can touch period.

Personally, I see no problem selling the F-22 to very close friends. Which, as I stated could help us procure more for ourselves!

skrip00 wrote:

Wrong. The US will buy all 350 it needs. It aint over until the fat lady sings. With current per unit costs at $100mil, the F-22A will be produced for many more years to come.

Wrong forum too.

I would have to respectfully disagree! Personally, I would love to see the USAF get all the Raptors that it needs but politically I just don't see it happening? Especially, with the War in Iraq going so badly and costing more everyday. Further, the Defense Budget is already stretched with big ticket Military Projects like the JSF, DDX, CVN-78, etc. Which, is my whole point here! Sell a small number of Raptor to say Japan and keep the line open for several more years by which time the War in Iraq will be over and the budget will ease...................remember when the Raptor line closes it won't reopen! There is no advantage to winning the battle if you lose the war!!!! Shocked

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

US Goverment must NOT export F-22!

What the US can't trust its friends! Confused

afnsucks wrote:

What?!? You're crazy! Selling the F-22 would mean selling America's air domanice factor. Let's face it: as much as I love the F-16 the F-22 is the supreme bird in the sky. If we want to remind the strongest power in the world then we can't share our power with other countries. I know we would sell the F-22 to only our allies but at the same time that puts them on the same level as us. Until we build something that can defend the F-22 we can't share it with any other nation. It may mean that the plane will cost more but at the same time we're getting what we paid for and that's remaining the mightist Air Force in the world that no one can touch period.

Funny, we sold the F-15's to Japan, Israel, and Saudi Arabia more than 25 years ago! What's you problem I don't see them building F-22's or even more advance F-15's.................. Rolling Eyes

That said, I wouldn't sell F-22's to the Saudi's or Israel at this point. Yet, I would with out second thought to Japan and/or Australia! Very Happy

I believe that -- because the production cost of the F-22A will be somewhere between $83 million (Lockmart's promise) to $102 million (currently achieved) -- the USAF will find it irresistable to continue buying it at 12~20 airframes a year even after the current 183 airframes have been produced. Yes, the F-22 PROGRAM is very expensive. But all that money spent is on R&D is not going to be recovered whether they buy F-22s or not. Its $38 million, gone. They are not getting one cent back. The only question now is whether or not to continue to buy the best fighter in the world at ~$90 million a copy going forward. Buying about 12 a year will cost about 1 billion. That is quite honestly, PEANUTS, in the context of a $400 billion defence budget. Spending peanuts for more F-22s and keeping the USA's premiere fighter line alive will be irresistable.

Having said that, I also believe that the USA will export the F-22 at some point. The F-15 was very sensitive tech too (when it came out) and we exported it. The F-22 will be exported, IMHO, initially to the most trusted allies and later on to others. If I have to guess, the first accepted order will be from Japan for about 80~120 aircrafts. Israel may also take a dozen or two, but not as soon.

dwightlooi wrote:

I believe that -- because the production cost of the F-22A will be somewhere between $83 million (Lockmart's promise) to $102 million (currently achieved) -- the USAF will find it irresistable to continue buying it at 12~20 airframes a year even after the current 183 airframes have been produced. Yes, the F-22 PROGRAM is very expensive. But all that money spent is on R&D is not going to be recovered whether they buy F-22s or not. Its $38 million, gone. They are not getting one cent back. The only question now is whether or not to continue to buy the best fighter in the world at ~$90 million a copy going forward. Buying about 12 a year will cost about 1 billion. That is quite honestly, PEANUTS, in the context of a $400 billion defence budget. Spending peanuts for more F-22s and keeping the USA's premiere fighter line alive will be irresistable.

Having said that, I also believe that the USA will export the F-22 at some point. The F-15 was very sensitive tech too (when it came out) and we exported it. The F-22 will be exported, IMHO, initially to the most trusted allies and later on to others. If I have to guess, the first accepted order will be from Japan for about 80~120 aircrafts. Israel may also take a dozen or two, but not as soon.

While the USAF may consider the F-22 as irresistable and well worth every penny. That in turn doen't mean the US Congress believes it is! Which, is the whole point here. If, it did the USAF would be getting 800 Raptors instead of the 183 now planned and trust me there's pressure to cut that! Confused

If, people don't start to wake up the USAF will be lucky to get 183 and production will close and that will be the end of that! PERIOD! Sad

Really, the only viable solution in the short-term is sell a small number of Raptor to close allies like Japan to keep the production line open.

F-22's cost about $140m right now. Lockheed has said that might drop to around $130m if more were ordered.

I think its pretty clear Congress wants F-22 production to continue until F-35's are rolling off the line. I'd say that means more than 183 will be acquired.

RonO wrote:

F-22's cost about $140m right now. Lockheed has said that might drop to around $130m if more were ordered.

I think its pretty clear Congress wants F-22 production to continue until F-35's are rolling off the line. I'd say that means more than 183 will be acquired.

From what I hear that is not likely at this point! Crying or Very sad

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While the USAF may consider the F-22 as irresistable and well worth every penny. That in turn doen't mean the US Congress believes it is!

As of right now, the F-22A costs $102 million. Aircraft coming off the line are this price, or less.

Also, take into account, the USAF has a procurement budget which allows it to buy whatever it wants. At this time, the USAF will sacrifice everything to keep the F-22 production line going for 50 years. Hopefully to produce a -B variant by 2030 which will last even longer.

This will be achieved. F-22A production and F-35 production do not interfere either. So they can both be produced concurrently.

And they will. Mark my words.

skrip00 wrote:

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While the USAF may consider the F-22 as irresistable and well worth every penny. That in turn doen't mean the US Congress believes it is!

As of right now, the F-22A costs $102 million. Aircraft coming off the line are this price, or less.

Also, take into account, the USAF has a procurement budget which allows it to buy whatever it wants. At this time, the USAF will sacrifice everything to keep the F-22 production line going for 50 years. Hopefully to produce a -B variant by 2030 which will last even longer.

This will be achieved. F-22A production and F-35 production do not interfere either. So they can both be produced concurrently.

And they will. Mark my words.

So, what "source" do you have that states the USAF is going to purchase over the 183 Raptors? Further, the Goverment (i.e. Congress) controls the USAF Defense Budget. It can and often does tell the Military Branches (including the USAF) what they will or will not purchase! As a matter of fact the USAF gets Military equipment every year that it doesn't want under mandate of the Goverment! The USAF can wish all it wants but it is independent branch of goverment to spend as it chooses............that always rest with the goverment and the people and last I knew the Military answers to us! Confused

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

US Goverment must export F-22!