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Newbie Joined: Aug 31, 2006 Posts: 15 Status: Offline

I am new to this forum.

So hi to everyone.

I have been monitoring the comments of Dozerf22 in this avaition site; -

http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index. ... 292.0.html

Dozer is quite simply the best commentator on the F-22A I have ever read.

If there is anyone on this forum who is also a member of the fencecheck forum (requires subscription) could they please relay to Dozer my request for him to comment on any training sorties that he knows about that have taken place between the EF2000 Typhoon and the F-22A Raptor.

There are rumours that the Typhoon has won several WVR engagements and also that a Typhoon managed to detect a Raptor (carrying underwing droptanks) using its Captor radar at 80 miles. Was the Raptor advertising its position at the time, or was it fully stealthed up?

Otherwise I would really like Dozer to comment about any encounters between the two aircraft that he knows about.

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Enthusiast Joined: Jul 19, 2006 Posts: 74 Status: Offline

He probably won't give any information out concerning things like that because it's probably still classified.

I call BS on the GAO. They said the F-22A costs 360 mill right not.

But this guy picked one up last month for 106 mill. WHAT BULL! They better buy 250 more of these suckers and AMARC those F-15Cs.

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 26 Status: Offline

It all depends on how the costs are calculated...

If yu factor in R&D and then divide across 183 airframes you're get a figure close to 360 million- the way the GAO ect will calculate the numbers.

If you count just the airframe then 106 million, remember the engines are government furnished equipment....

133million if you count fly away with engines...

And what not. Remember the old saying there are lies, damn lies and statistics...

BUT! If Lockheed was already paid the cost of R&D, then you cant spread the costs over all the airframes. Just the first aircraft.

Hence, it is a lie. The first F-22A costs $42 billion. All others costed roughly $120 million. Its called "sunk" costs anyway.

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 26 Status: Offline

I'm not saying we have to like it or that I disagree with you, its just how business is done in DC.... unfortunate but true.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 20, 2005 Posts: 1034 Status: Offline

Don't get upset about it. Just remember this...anyone factoring in all the R&D is just plain wrong. Period. No other program has ever factored those things in. The critics started doing it to make the program look bad. There are MANY aircraft that cost more than a single F-22A...hell, even a C-17 costs more! So what if its curently the most expensive FIGHTER ever produced?? You think that advanced systems are going to go down in price?? What really irks me is that the meatheads in D.C. should be trying to explain why gas producers are generating RECORD profits, yet no one says well if thats the case then why am I paying so much for gas??

-Check

Newbie Joined: Aug 31, 2006 Posts: 15 Status: Offline

It is now one week since Rapior01 passed on my request to Dozerf22 on the Fence Check forum for information about any training sorties that may have taken place in the US between Typhoon's and Raptor's. Since then others posed the same question to Dozerf22 over at Fence Check. Dozer responded twice. His first reply was perfectly candid if a little ambiguous; -

Quote:

I honestly have no knowledge about the Raptor vs. Typhoon (anything I did know would probably be classified anyhow). I highly doubt it's made it to the US for testing vs. the F-22, that would be a very tense and political issue

If any encounters between the two aircraft had taken place, Dozerf22 would know about it. Dozer was then pressed about the political angle. His response was an emphatic denial that there had ever been any training sorties between the two aircraft; -

Quote:

I didn't say they'd [Typhoon's] never been here - just not flying against a Raptor.

I think we have to take Dozer at his word and dismiss all these rumours of Typhoon's doing this or that against Raptors are idle speculation based on internet chatter.

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F-22A versus EF2000