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Because NATO did not promptly destroy the F-117 wreckage in Bosnia, Russian engineers have reportedly salvaged parts of the airframe for testing Russian radar and SAM systems such as the S-400.

How significantly can the engineers thrust their anti-stealth technology forward? How well would the F-22 defeat the hypothetically most advanced Russian SAM technology to emerge in the next 15-20 years?

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Elite Joined: Jul 12, 2005 Posts: 1543 Status: Offline

Great topic all.

Many thanks for Your information.

Greetings,

Henrik.

I really don't have enough knowledge on the subject to even give a guess on answering this question. But from a Logical standpoint, this question I think has to many open variables. There are so many details that one would have to know about both the wreckage, and from that the capabilities and the type test that Russian Scientist were undergoing. But to be honest, I think we can just say, without having any knowledge about it, that it probably did help them out. And now adding the F-22 Variable, well that opens another can of worms, so many things that aren't released, or are classified on that aircraft. I don't have any knowledge of that program really other than what I read here. And more then press reports, specifics probably aren't going to be given. Not just for the reason that they are classified or what not, but really the subject is way to broad to address and guessing is probably more absurd then an answer. And an answer just isn't realistic given the nature of the subject.

But in my own humble opinion, probably hurt stealth tech a little. (thats a common sense given) But since a program is still going on (common sense says that its a survivable stab the program can survive.)

Now Like I said, I don't know anything really about it, so I was just going on common sense. And give it about a day, and there will probably be people in here who are just going to tell you that the question is to specific.

Well have fun thinking about it. Probably didn't tell you anything you didn't already know.

Laters.

From what I've understood, stealth is not only LO paint and shape, but the radar emissions and ECM used on an aircraft as well. If that is true, I think the F-22 is again one step ahead, because of the truly superior with AESA and the other tech goodies Smile

Again, the F-22 is probably using much a more advanced stealth shape than the Nighthawk. Verdict (IMO): If not outrageously mishandled, the F-22 has no fear from these air defences Smile

Maybe that's the reply you'll get since more advanced and thorough info will surely be of the "C" kind (you know, stuff Iran, China etc. would love hearing).

Elite Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 757 Status: Offline

mil_hobbyist wrote:

How well would the F-22 defeat the hypothetically most advanced Russian SAM technology to emerge in the next 15-20 years?

Your question in regards to the Raptor falls under the classified side and cannot be answered, other than it is a known fact the F-22 is designed to survive against "double-digit" SAM threats.

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

mil_hobbyist wrote:

How well would the F-22 defeat the hypothetically most advanced Russian SAM technology to emerge in the next 15-20 years?

Your question in regards to the Raptor falls under the classified side and cannot be answered, other than it is a known fact the F-22 is designed to survive against "double-digit" SAM threats.

Thanks Scorpion1alpha. I was not seeking specific information. If US fighter commanders feel comfortable about the warplane's capabilities, then I trust their judgment.

Elite Joined: Jul 14, 2004 Posts: 2444 Status: Offline

Thanks Scorpion. I came into this one a day late and a dollar short, but he's right everyone. The information related to this topic is classified, and it's highly doubtful that it will ever be declassified.

Let sleeping dogs lie. This thread should end. Moderators, could you please lock this one?

To Err is Human. To Forgive is NOT ACC Policy.

mil_hobbyist wrote:

NATO did not promptly destroy the F-117 wreckage in Bosnia, Russian engineers have reportedly salvaged parts of the airframe for testing Russian radar and SAM systems such as the S-400.

The USAF did not destroy the wreckage because before they could get there a media circus had enveloped the crash site.

mil_hobbyist wrote:

How significantly can the engineers thrust their anti-stealth technology forward?

It would help only from the standpoint that it gives the Russians information on how how many parts (carbon fibre, metals within the structure, RAM, etc.) were as completed components.

It allowed the Soviets to check their intelligence information versus the finished product.

The KGB had delievered the specs on the F-117 before it was revealed to the world but, the Soviet command structure thought it was a mis-information. Remember, Tom Clancy wrote about a stealth aircraft called the F-19 Frisbee in the book, "Red Storm Rising", published in 1986!

mil_hobbyist wrote:

How well would the F-22 defeat the hypothetically most advanced Russian SAM technology to emerge in the next 15-20 years?

Well, not much. While this will help them in the sense that they know for sure one way to make a design that works.

The F-22 and all other stealth vehicles are a work in progress. The range of frequencies of which stealth is effective is getting greater. Their ability to attenuate signals designed to detect them is getting better. Stealth versus counter-stealth is an aspect of ECM versus ECCM.

The real secrets of stealth are the exact composition of materials, the sequence of materials, the manufacturing process, etc.

The shape of stealth vehicles is not secret at all. Once a photograph is available, "descriptive geometry" can be used to obtain true angles and true distances.

Adrian

Thanks avon. Perhaps we should respect TC's wishes. Let us quietly leave this topic.

F-16.net Webmaster Joined: Jul 23, 2003 Posts: 2272

Thank you all. It's definitely interesting stuff, but as TC advised, we'll let the sleeping dogs lie.

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Raptor's Stealth vs. 1st gen LO technology