Forum: F-16 News

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Turkey’s F-16 Purchase Would Halt F-4 Upgrades
By Burak Ege Bekdil, Ankara and Umit Enginsoy, Washington

Turkey is close to a decision to acquire a fresh fleet of F-16 fighter jets, a deal the government sees as a stopgap solution until new-generation fighters join its Air Force.

Military and procurement officials said a contract may emerge in the next few months if all technical and financial negotiations go smoothly with Bethesda, Md.-based jet maker Lockheed Martin.

“We are planning to acquire 30 new F-16 fighters, and talks are continuing,” a senior Turkish procurement official said.

Ankara wants to buy the F-16 Block 52+, one of Lockheed’s most advanced fighters, said procurement and military officials. The 30 fighters are expected to cost Turkey more than $1.5 billion.

Greece, Turkey’s traditional Aegean rival, last year signed a deal for 30 F-16 Block 52+ jets, slated for delivery in 2009.

One Turkish defense analyst suggested that the move would increase the chances that Ankara would choose the U.S.-led F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) over the Eurofighter Typhoon as its next-generation combat jet. But Turkish procurement officials, who have said that either or both could be purchased, declined to comment further.

Turkey has said it would decide by year’s end whether to join the JSF’s production phase. Ankara already has invested $175 million in the JSF’s development.

The F-16 deal would put on hold a $480 million effort to upgrade 48 Vietnam War-era F-4E Phantom fighters, or at least limit the upgrades and perform them all locally, one procurement official said. “The [F-4E] program already is on hold,” he said. “We’ve downgraded its priority ranking. If we bought new F-16s, we might minimize its scope.”

The current plan calls for the upgrades to be performed by the state-owned Tusas Aerospace Industries (TAI). TAI was the co-manufacturer of F-16s in the 1990s under a contract with Lockheed. But the bulk of the money would go to Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) in technology-transfer fees and licenses.
Under a 1997 contract, IAI has been leading a joint effort to upgrade 54 U.S.-made F-4Es. Although the original contract was worth some $670 million, the project’s actual cost has exceeded $1 billion, Turkish procurement officials say. The F-4 modernization was to be a stopgap solution until the acquisition of the JSF or the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Source: www.defensenews.com

Also see: <a href="news_article1905.html">Turkey close to buying 30 new block 52+ F-16s</a>

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Seems odd they'd take a Block 52 what with all the engine support infrastructure based around the GE motor. Go fig. Confused

F-16 is selling very well. Last month they sold 66 planes to Taiwan, and now this. Does anyone knows, how long the assembly line will be open?

Who is this official, I wonder? A few months ago, Defemce ministry officials were declining the purchase of F-16s. Also, second F-4E modernization package is also terminated. Most people were talking about the purchase of the Eurofighters as an interval solution. Also we still have some problems with LM about the technological transfer and logistics issues of the JSF. Then what happened to the Typhoon, did I miss something?

That sounds a lot like the case in the other side of the Aegean, Otto. Polticians were saying "no more F-16s" yet we bought 30 of them now. The Peace Onyx I aircraft must be 20 years old now, maybe TuAF is retiring some ?

I always say seat dreamer, we are pretty much the same Very Happy

. as far as know at one time TuAF offered some of its used vipers to Poland. But later on they decided to buy brand new ones. Peace Onyx 1 is comprised of block 30s and 40s, however personally I wouldn't like the TuAF to sell the 30s as they are lighter than the other 40s and 50s, which make them desirable for air-to-air engagements, what neighbours will ever need over the Aegean, huh? Cheers

An upgraded block30 purely for AA missions in the hands of the Wolves (Sq141), that's what I mean! Which is the best sq in HAF for AA by the way?

Indeed, most trip reports I've heard bring to my mind "Heck, it's the same here !" Laughing

Too similar places to be hostile, but I guess we both know how politicians like to serve the "patriotism" (really nationalism) for accomplishing their purposes.

I'd suppose the best for AA would be the 332nd (Mirage 2000), since they are specialized on AA.

We getting a bit off-topic or is it my idea Embarassed

_Viper_ wrote:

F-16 is selling very well. Last month they sold 66 planes to Taiwan, and now this. Does anyone knows, how long the assembly line will be open?

Assembly lines would be open well beyond 2010 if all these orders are confirmed.

Turkey 30 ,Taiwan 66 ,Greece 30 and Pakistan 75 ...

The Phantoms are old and costly to maintain, buying new F-16s is the logical and cost effective step for Turkey... Its is very unlikely imho that Turkey (or Greece) will buy both the Eurofighter and the F-35...

Otto, the HAF does not centralise its best pilots in one Squadron... BTW the THK Block 30s were offered for sale to Hungary in the past, and lately they don't fly much...

In my opinion, It may be quite likely that especially Greece (as well as Turkey) will choose both JSF and Eurofighter. Eurofighter to fulfill its obligations in EU and JSF as for its more advanced capabilities (and maybe just for Turkey will choose it?). TuAF mostly stand on two types of figthers in its squadrons (F-4 and F-16 now, F-5 for training) Later F-16 and JSF and maybe Eurofighter and JSF for mid-term... In case we can sort out the source code issue with the US government.Typhoon consortium offers more in this issue and production. I do not think the purchase of 30 vipers is the broadly-discussed solution as we wait for the JSF to come, cause the ministry officials were talking about 90 Eurofighters for this purpose.
Anyway, these are just assumptions, we'll see what will happen...

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Turkey 30 ,Taiwan 66 ,Greece 30 and Pakistan 75 ...

A little update : Pakistan 36 blk52+
Dont forget India.They might go for 126 blk 70 F-16s.After all the viper is still in the competition.

For a "30 year old design" (as quoted by some local politicans), that thing surely sells damm good Wink

The production line must be nearing machine #5,000 - is anyone aware of the actual number for us to praise Very Happy

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They might go for 126 blk 70 F-16s.After all the viper is still in the competition

Rumor has it that India might go for a combination of M 2000-5's and Rafale's because the US would not offer Vipers equipped with AESA.

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Rumor has it that India might go for a combination of M 2000-5's and Rafale's because the US would not offer Vipers equipped with AESA.

Negative on the Mirage 2000-5's. The assembly line is closed for a few months now.

In my opinion, no more F-4E upgrades should be made. I do not find it wise. Instead of giving that much money to those grandfathers' time aircraft, attrition losses plus a few more F-16 aircraft may be purchased.

Traditionally TuAF used to fly with a single engine, light fighter aircraft supporting twin engine fighter-bombers, such as F-104 and F-4E in the past and F-16C and F-4E recently. Now that the F-4E aircraft are retiring, one would think to replace them with a new twin engine fighter bomber. In the 1990's we were expecting the Peace Onyx II would be 160 Block50 F-16C aircraft rather than 80 that had actually been purchased. Also the F-4E fleet would be modernised with F-15E Strike Eagles. But that has never happened nor there is a need for such that expenditure now.

On the other hand, if the active aircraft remains as the existing fleet of F-16C's, 215 aircraft are not sufficient to defend the Turkish Air Space. As one inspects the capabilities of the F-16E/F Block60 aircraft it can be realised that it can substitute a twin engine fighter bomber both for the Turkish and Hellenic Air Forces. When we begin receiving F-35A fighters by 2015, F-16C and F-16E fighters can still be used, when despite an upgrade, the F-4E's would be useless.

215 F-16C Block 30-40-50
30 F-16C Block 52+ for atrition losses
80 F-16E Block 60 for substitution of F-4E'[Link pending approval] F-16 fighters.
Supported by 4 B-737 AEW&C aircraft and 8 KC-135 tankers.

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Forum: F-16 News

Turkey's possible new F-16 block 52+ purchase