Forum: F-22A Raptor

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 21, 2005 - 12:24 AM Posts: 65

I Remember the very famous Doolitle Raid.

Then I have a Nice Dream, why not to store a few F-22A on a carreir and use on a raid departing from a carrier, attacking and returning to land base after some re-fuels.

The Main Advantage is the closest position to the target, that plus super cruise and STEALTH would be very interesting to use on attacks on some "opportunity" targets, and is available TODAY, no on ten years.

I don't know the T/O numbers of the Raptor, but somewhere I read It can T.O. on 300mt strip (a Nimitz class carrier hsa more deck that that), so no catapult is required.

That remembered that the navy tested some land based a/c on carriers w/o mods, as the Hercules, some communters, and some other bombers equiped with rocket asisted t.o.

Now maybe the time... So Why Not?

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They've got this new fangled invention called "aerial refueling" of all things. Rolling Eyes

I would hate to be the poor SOB that had to crew that thing on a boat. Would'nt that be a breach of contract for USAF personnel?

To my knowledge there's nothing concrete or "contractural" that says the two branches can't interact on some levels. Look at the joint Prowler crews. Regularly launching AF jets from Navy carriers just isn't done, mainly because of current compatability issues. If the AF ever gets a STOVL F-35 that could change, but don't hold your breath.

The Doolittle Raid was an one-of-a-kind op and not meant to be repeated. It was meant to be both a morale boost for the folks at home (because up until Midway in June of '42, the US was getting its keister kicked in the Pacific theater) and to show the Japanese that despite our losses at Pearl and other later Pacific defeats, we could still mount an attack on the Japanese home islands if we wanted.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Sferrin is 100% on the mark. In 1942 we didn't have (practical) aerial refueling. With tanker bases all over the world able to support intercontinental flights, trying to launch an F-22 off a carrier would just be a stunt.

Anyone remember the NATF Naval Raptor concept?

They love those swept wing aircraft.....

A boat-Raptor a stunt? The Dragon Lady did it, why not the Raptor? It has a very sturdy airframe and good STOL performance and maybe it adds some mision flexibility. If a deep strike F-22 gets troubles or damaged, than the USAF prefers the F-22 on a boat and not in a 'ditching-mode', although: no more fishing at f-16.net go for the real thing.

IIRC, the U-2 on the carrier was a Navy-sponsored evaluation, in order to determine if it was practical for the Navy to operate the U-2 in clandestine carrier ops. The idea went nowhere.

F-22 on a carrier is a pipe dream. Apart from being unsafe to operate in a "Jimmy Doolittle" fashion, the AF would never allow it. AF crews are allowed to operate from carriers, by flying in a Navy jet (EA-6B) which was specifically built for carrier ops.

Imagine if the Raptor blew a tire on takeoff roll, or nosewheel steering went Tango Uniform, or a myraid other problems. On a small carrier deck with planes potentially on both sides of you, not to mention the many deck crew, and aircrew in the area, the results could be catastrophic. This is the same reason why the Herc on a carrier idea went nowhere.

Disapproved. Resubmit in 6 months for Final Disapproval.

In a past CodeOne issue ( http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2004/articles/aug_04/fa22/index.html) one pilot at Tyndall said: "We takeoff in afterburner, and we are airborne in about 800 feet". The deck of a nimitz class is 1092 feet. Also, if lauched against the wind, an F 22 would have little trouble to take-off. About the landing, I don't know. The controlability of the jet is awsome at very slow speeds.

OTOH I agree, it is a dream...

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

cru wrote:

About the landing, I don't know

I do. Crrrrr-unch. Very Happy

The F-22's gear and structure is NOT designed for a carrier landing.

Enthusiast Joined: Nov 21, 2005 - 12:24 AM Posts: 65

Guysmiley wrote:

cru wrote:

About the landing, I don't know

I do. Crrrrr-unch. Very Happy

The F-22's gear and structure is NOT designed for a carrier landing.

Not a problem coz the F-22A would not use a tail hook (maybe, is supossed this isn't a routine operation), as the Hercules landing on a carriers Deck, the F-22A will only use the very-low speed and the weel-brakes.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Not talking about the tail hook, my point is the gear and where the gear attaches to the frame. On approach to a carrier you don't gently "grease" onto the deck, you HIT the deck.

Thrust vectoring can do wonders at low speed (see DesignandConquer's videos), but they can't point forwards, and there is no way a flying F-22 with little to no sink rate rate can touchdown gently and still stop in the length of a carrier deck. It is an interesting thought, but it just isn't practical.

TC wrote:

IIRC, the U-2 on the carrier was a Navy-sponsored evaluation, in order to determine if it was practical for the Navy to operate the U-2 in clandestine carrier ops. The idea went nowhere.

F-22 on a carrier is a pipe dream. Apart from being unsafe to operate in a "Jimmy Doolittle" fashion, the AF would never allow it. AF crews are allowed to operate from carriers, by flying in a Navy jet (EA-6B) which was specifically built for carrier ops.

Imagine if the Raptor blew a tire on takeoff roll, or nosewheel steering went Tango Uniform, or a myraid other problems. On a small carrier deck with planes potentially on both sides of you, not to mention the many deck crew, and aircrew in the area, the results could be catastrophic. This is the same reason why the Herc on a carrier idea went nowhere.

Disapproved. Resubmit in 6 months for Final Disapproval.

TC,

As with lots of things - blame the CIA Laughing

! The U-2G was their idea and it never really caught on... go figure Shrug

.

The Navy did have some U-2s modified to the U-2EPX designation for aerial surveillance and Lockheed even proposed a 2 seat version carrying anti ship missiles - no sierra! Check out When the U-2 Went To Sea for more details Wink

.

Sure, the Raptor could probably take off from a carrier as described, but TC has some good points and the only real benefits would be surprise and less crew fatigue. I just don't see it happening.

VMF-214 wrote:

Guysmiley wrote:

cru wrote:

About the landing, I don't know

I do. Crrrrr-unch. Very Happy

The F-22's gear and structure is NOT designed for a carrier landing.

Not a problem coz the F-22A would not use a tail hook (maybe, is supossed this isn't a routine operation), as the Hercules landing on a carriers Deck, the F-22A will only use the very-low speed and the weel-brakes.

The F-22A is not carrier qualified, it would collapse on first contact.

In general, air force airframes have an arrestor hook that is stressed for low speed engagements it would tear out on a normal carrier arrestment; carrier aircraft have a load bearing keel which transfers the loads into the primary structure.

Even so on Naval airframes there is an airframe limit on the number of arrested landings.

C-130's do not operate of carriers they are land bases beasts. The video of the landing was a proof of concept; putting the props in reverse before touchdown is not something that can be done during normal operations.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22A from a Carrier "a la Doolitle"