Forum: F-16.net feedback

Last edited by Lieven on Jun 25, 2006 - 10:28 AM; edited 1 time in total

Regarding the thread <a href="f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-5724.html">F-16 base in Oman - Thumrait AB</a>

Note that we also have a dedicated <a href="f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-5218.html">OPSEC thread</a>.

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Did I say anything about "single handedly" censoring anything? Just voicing my disgust. People have a right to say what they want, everyone seems like they are experts around here....

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 25, 2003 - 10:03 PM Posts: 679

Tomy , I understand why you may be upset. But, these sort of things have been posted long before you were a member here. Does that make 'em right? I'm not sure.

It's all very public information, so I don't see the problem.

Sometimes..too much information going public can be (might be) turned into something evil or bad. I sure wish, like Raptor_DCTR suggested..folks would not add to that public display or insensitivity of data collection efforts possibly by some that could easily use it to harm folks.

Why display it...is it just because you can? If so, that is a very silly reason in its own right, safe guarding information is far smarter, why brag you know something (if you do), better to keep it close and be safe then sorry.

I agree, it is in poor taste, even if it is available to some that know the site (or where to find it) but even further to broadcast it...I think it is wrong but then again, how to build certain weapons is also posted on the Internet, that make it right...hell no (it does not).

It just means people are collectively stupid and show no accountability for their actions in many cases. That is truly a shame.....it appears to be running amok and folks just love to use this forum to truly show just how silly they can be, freedom of speech is one thing, along with that freedom is accountability and common sense, it should prevail here..what the hell will be posted next here...launch codes for ICBM's?

I think the posting should not have happened...but that's just me, I am sure others feel the same way, we (general public) should not know everything, it is too easy to misuse information like that - but that is my two cents! You never know...it could cost lifes later down the road, I'd rather keep that type of information close.

Shame on you for displaying it, even if it is on the internet, I think it is wrong too.

I never for a second thought this would become a contentious issue and get into an "argument" with some members of the forum. I just truly loved the image and wanted to frame it in my living room.

I must remind you that I am Australian and live in Australia a continent far away from the USA. Australia is therefore not in the USA. My situation is similar to the situation of many other forum members.

All my life since I was a little boy I have read about military aviation, and today I read at least 10 different printed publications every month which is not a lot, some read more than that. That surely does not make me an expert on anything but I know what has been released to the specialised media. What I consume is freely available, paid with credit card, public domain, mass media information cleared by the Pentagon, the Vatican and Microsoft. To me the main source of my information is still the printed media
not the internet with all the gossip and nonsense.

Therefore sometimes it is a shock to the system when some possibly US citizens expect people from other countries conform to their sensitivities and accept their concepts of what is acceptable or not. To say that that information that appeared in Aviation Week is too sensitive is absolute rubbish, and that Google Earth is an evil tool is to go against the course set by one of your big US corporations. God forbid us.

Vipertommy had the right to say what he felt like and I had the right to point out that the information appears in many freely available official publications. As far as I understand the Air Force Almanac is. I have had a subscription to Air Force for many years and read it since I was a kid. Same as AWST, Flight international and others.

I understand if a group has applied pressure to lock the topic, and that is sine since this is not my website, have no right to dispute it and no intention to do so, or to discuss the topic again.

It also seems there is a line of thought that says that the information only appears in www.f-16.net and nowhere else.

After a moment of reflection, I came to the conclusion that it does not really matter, because at the end of the day this is just a hobby to me, an interest, something I love reading about, and really not worth arguing and getting upset about. I do not make a living out of this or think this is going to take me anywhere in my future personal or professional development, so I have decided that I am going to retire and do the two million things I have to do in my daily life.

I love the F-16 plane, think the US forces are the best in the world and www.f-16.net is absolutely fantastic and wish you all the best.

Good Bye.

F16VIPER

I thank Meathook for agree with my comments, it seems he is the only one around here that still believes in protecting his countries assets. You people brag about getting this kind of info off the internet, it disgusts me and I just wonder what other sensitive material you are going to dig up off of some freelancer's website next. So I guess when you figure out how IFF works, go ahead and smear it all over the net, because as long as it's on the internet it's MUST be public info right? Don't believe everything you read on the internet, that is completely ignorant. Another suggestion, there is more to life than spending all of your free time searching around on the internet for stuff. Get a life, go outside, and see the light of day for once.

'Brag about getting this info' - who is bragging? And what 'freelancer' are you talking about? It seems you people think this information is in the grey area - it's not, it's completely public information and any idiot spending a minute or two with google can find it. Rolling Eyes

I agree...any idiot would post it too, lets look up all the aircraft at your bases, in your country, add their configuration (what is hanging on the aircraft now and future deployments), post them so they are a possible terrorist target, if that does not bother you....you need your head examined.

Sorry, I still think it is wrong to do so just because you can do something does not mean you should, common sense needs to be somewhere even if this crap is available on the net, just means "people" have lost touch with the reality of the world and just how stupid they (people in general) have become.

A guy jumps off a roof for the hell of it, you going to do it too...I sure hope not!

Amen Meathook, Amen.....couldn't have said it better myself, keep up the good fight brother!

Meathook wrote:

lets look up all the aircraft at your bases, in your country, add their configuration (what is hanging on the aircraft now and future deployments)

I'm sorry, the Norwegian government already did that for me. Wink

List of airbases with locations

Squadrons with their material and tasks

The F-16, with complete armament, configuration and service history

The news, letting people know of future deployments like Afghanistan and Sudan

Freedom of information, speech and a military controlled by the civilian government is a requirement for a healthy democracy. I'm glad we have that here, the transparency in the state makes me feel safe. If the government were adamant about keeping secrets, I'd start looking over my shoulder.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

This is just crazy. He was asking about the locations of runways. You know, the two or three mile long concrete slabs hundreds of feet wide? Yeah, they're pretty easy to spot. This makes as much sense as the hysteria that led to banning aerial photos of public airports, because you know, terrorists, airplanes, crashing. They... they could SEE things!

We better raid and arrest Jeppsen employees now! They're PUBLISHING this information! Anyone can just just buy it!

Look. We live in a world where commercial satellite photography is available cheaply. It is a fact of life. You can like it or not like it, but not liking it does not make it go away. Neither does biting the head off of someone who has dared look at it.

I suppose you could spin up the ASAT program and take out all the commercial photo satellites, then launch commando raids on any server on the planet that still has the imagery data. But that would probably create a few more enemies of the US than it would foil.

Just my Two Cents

Guysmiley is 100% right.

A suicide bomber in Iraq who drives a truck full of explosives in the gate/checkpoint of a military base does not need google earth to find it. And he doesn't care what's behind the gate because he's not going to get there anyway.

Lots of people on this forum were amazed that they could find Area 51. Big deal! 2 runways and a few hangars..what's inside them is important, not the colour of the roof.

Forum Veteran Joined: Nov 07, 2003 - 09:12 PM Posts: 901

To start with, I too agree that some information available on the Internet should be subjected to stricter censorship. But censorship has to be carried out by the correct authorities. (There are so many Military related forums and certainly, the moderators of these forums are not the appropriate authorities.)

If one is afraid of his shadow being seen and discussed, covering himself with a blanket and forbidding others to look at the obvious does not change the fact that the shadow is not longer in the dark.

If you're in the defence work and you feel that any information published on the Internet/posted in an open forum is inappropriate, reporting the link to the government will be the professional move. IMHO, expressing your sniffy view in disgusts serves little purpose.

Back to the subject in question, from this article (Internet Availability of Imagery Worries Some World Leaders), I believe the concerns have been studied and addressed.

Two Cents

On imagery from satellites, using Google Earth as an example; you can`t zoom into areas people don`t want you to zoom to!

In the UK, the MoD was asked about their concerns on programs like Google Earth. the MoD said that Google Earth "Wasn`t a problem or concern for us"....

Nice article PUMPKIN, just confirmed what I thought was obvious, this imagery is very strictly controlled...US imagery that is. Especially around resolution. There were concerns about publicly available images of US territory taken by French satellites some time ago. Obviously these don`t fall under US law. That is where things can get blurred, what`s legal in one country is not in another. The internet crosses borders though.....Some people have a hard time with that idea.

China asked Google to surrender and pull all "subversive" content just to crack that huge market, shame... Chinese Google can only serve up search results the PRC government is happy with... Do we want to go that way?.

Back to the original thought, asking for the location of a length of concrete, isn`t like asking for the location of the launch keys for a Minuteman rocket!

Forum: F-16.net feedback

Should publishing imagery from satellites be prohibited?