Forum: F-16 News

Quote:

Greco-Turkish flames

Please lay off the flame war. Ruins it for us on the Administration side. Just keep it clean, factual, to the point and preferable on the subject in hand.

Plus this next point applies to you all. New and Old users on the forum. Please use the SPELL CHECKER before posting.... Evil or Very Mad

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Quote:

By the way the guys that post in such forums are always us Greeks and Turks, the rest of the world is bored of Greco-Turkish flames...

Just a side note:

I saw on one military forum that opening a thread about Greek-Turkish relations is strictly prohibited and Greek and Turkish forumers opening and / or posting in such topics are immediately banned.. Don't tell this to the admin Smile

Last edited by RoAF on May 24, 2006 - 09:24 PM; edited 1 time in total

Robust wrote:

Quote:

Turkish F-16s were flying in formation to protect RF-4E, then probably, my educated guess, Greek pilot didn't have accurate judgment of his closure rate, merged fast and collided with Turkish F-16 from behind...

Definatly a possibility. Almost two years ago two Romanian MiG-21 Lancer C collided for the same reason.

One was maintaining speed in level flight and a pair were scrambled for an exercise intercept. One of the pair kept distance behind the "hostile" within missile NEZ while the other had to approach (preferably unnoticed, that means 6 o'clock and underneath) and pop up on the right side of the "hostile". Now a 21 in intercept config. has 3 tanks and it's kind of lazy on the throttle. Decelerating is also a problem as you can only use 2 out of 3 air-brakes because of the centerline. So he realized too late how fast he's closing on the "intruder" and rammed him. Luckily both ejected unharmed.

Active Member Joined: May 23, 2006 - 03:25 PM Posts: 101

Asif,
You made my exact point. thanks.

Otto wrote:

If you have someone claiming incident took place in Greek airspace, check the source. General Staff say it was a routine training flight and they were intercepted by Greek F-16s, apparently Greek guys pretty like to intercept all flying objects over Aegean sea carrying a red color no matter where they fly.

Dear Otto,

Nobody can deny that the incident ended in international air space. But where did it begin? Confused

Moreover, if you characterize the flight of the 2x F-16s and the RF-4E's off the the Crete coast, in order to photograph the position of the S-300s and TOR M1, as a "routine training flight"

I would say that you just killed reason....... Big No No

the TUAF, no doubt, will continue such "training' flights Salute

and HAF will continue to intercept them.......... Applause

One could go so far as to say that this thread makes an interesting example of why drivers on both sides of the Greek/Turkey border are going to continue to find themselves in these types of situations. People here can't even agree what's right and what's wrong and want to continue to point fingers.

All politics aside, losing two F-16s, having a Greek KIA and a Turkish pilot have to eject. A terrible day all around.

Yes, it is the price paid in this serious tech-no war of advanced fighter aircraft with unrecognized or failure to recognize international boarders and waters - shame for both sides, maybe some good will come of it in future negotiations..then again, maybe not

I was planning to post yesterday but couldn't find time.

First of all, as I have observed lots of misinformation and accusations have been pouring in. First of all, THERE WAS NO DOGFIGHT. Turkish F-16s and RF-4E were flying at 28000 ft and 300 CAS. They were in a Vic formation, F-4 leading and two F-16s 4000 ft behind, flying line abreast. Wingmen was 2000 ft higher.

After the Greek F-16s interception, they both followed wingmen for a while. Greek number 2 stayed with wingmen, while number 1 dipped the nose down to extend and went for leader. During his approach to lead aircraft, Turkish F-16 number 2 warned his lead about the excessive overtake of the Greek jet on lead aircraft.

A few seconds later Greek mishap A/C made another attempt to get in the close formation of Turkish mishap A/C. Again wingmen warned the lead pilot. At that time wingmen looked back over his shoulder to see Greek number 2 which was slightly high and back.

Next time looking at the leader he saw the Greek aircraft hitting the lead with an incredible smash from down and right aft. He said the Greek A/C literally blown into thousands of pieces at the time of collision. Instantly, Turkish a/c was broken into two pieces. The aft part started burning. The lead a/c ejected at that moment. we were able to see the main pieces of A/C debris a few seconds later in his VTR. During this whole time there was no maneuver on the VTR.

People accusing the Turkish pilots should think again. The Greek pilot made a mistake by not controlling his A/C in such a close position. According to ICAO rules, he shouldn't be inside 1000 ft.

BTW, there are lots of accusations against Turkish pilot during the rescue process. If I have time tomorrow I will post about it. Things did not happen as written in this thread.

Active Member Joined: May 23, 2006 - 03:25 PM Posts: 101

Robust's educated guess and cobra's description (source?) sound realistic indeed, considering the outcome of the collision. Incoming additional information will allow cross-checking of facts and maybe a clarification of details.

Asif wrote:

You Greek by any chance?

No. I am born and raised Turkish, American by choice and Greek Orthodox Christian convert by faith. Enough reason to be lynched in Turkey though that is another issue.

Robust wrote:

I have been in this forum since it was established...I read almost all posts weekly but I dont write alot. Regarding anti-Greek ones, what is wrong posting Official TuAF press release? Dont we all want to know the truth?

I didn't target your post Robust. Of course there is nothing wrong posting that particular press release. If necessary to give out names, I meant posts like "mariner"s, check it out, 7 pages already and there is quite a few of those people with 2-3 posts total in the forum.

Quote:

Greek pilot didn't have accurate judgment of his closure rate, merged fast and collided with Turkish F-16 from behind...

I find this hard to believe, especially when a pilot wearing "Captain" rank is concerned. Focus on the incident should be on the Turkish side in my opinion, where were those aircraft, what were they doing, that required HAF to be scrambled....

Last edited by Bushmaster78FS on May 25, 2006 - 01:17 AM; edited 1 time in total

191cobra wrote:

I was planning to post yesterday but couldn't find time.

First of all, as I have observed lots of misinformation and accusations have been pouring in. First of all, THERE WAS NO DOGFIGHT. Turkish F-16s and RF-4E were flying at 28000 ft and 300 CAS. They were in a Vic formation, F-4 leading and two F-16s 4000 ft behind, flying line abreast. Wingmen was 2000 ft higher.

After the Greek F-16s interception, they both followed wingmen for a while. Greek number 2 stayed with wingmen, while number 1 dipped the nose down to extend and went for leader. During his approach to lead aircraft, Turkish F-16 number 2 warned his lead about the excessive overtake of the Greek jet on lead aircraft.

A few seconds later Greek mishap A/C made another attempt to get in the close formation of Turkish mishap A/C. Again wingmen warned the lead pilot. At that time wingmen looked back over his shoulder to see Greek number 2 which was slightly high and back.

Next time looking at the leader he saw the Greek aircraft hitting the lead with an incredible smash from down and right aft. He said the Greek A/C literally blown into thousands of pieces at the time of collision. Instantly, Turkish a/c was broken into two pieces. The aft part started burning. The lead a/c ejected at that moment. we were able to see the main pieces of A/C debris a few seconds later in his VTR. During this whole time there was no maneuver on the VTR.

People accusing the Turkish pilots should think again. The Greek pilot made a mistake by not controlling his A/C in such a close position. According to ICAO rules, he shouldn't be inside 1000 ft.

BTW, there are lots of accusations against Turkish pilot during the rescue process. If I have time tomorrow I will post about it. Things did not happen as written in this thread. You will get the Truth.

Paint me impressed, NOT! We will get the truth from what source? You speak like you were watching the incident from AWACS, to be honest more than AWACS, like right in the middle of it. You were? What is your name and rank , officer? Aircraft are already numbered like we are watching "Top Gun"... This aircraft "warned" his lead, that aircraft's pilot "looked back over his shoulder to see number 2" Come on, this childish stuff from a TuAF officer? This must be same sort of dealio you pull when you change the light bulbs on the landing gear panel, and in the same time fly the plane and oooh "talk on the radio"... Paint me impressed, NOT!

Oh, I fly F-16s too. I have F4:AF in my computer. Our difference is that I don't pull G's, you do... Rolling Eyes

Oh don't forget, you carry spare light bulbs in your gear, I don't.

By the way, releasing the detailed "there I was" account of this incident, I think you wouldn't mind releasing the names and ranks of the Turkish pilots involved in the incident. 1LT was in the lead, who was the wingman? 2LT?

@bushmaster
You are right about the video...my source did make a mistake Wink

I just wanted to say that these kind of actions from both sides cost a lot of money and human lifes... And both countries do have a lot of other more important things to attend to...I am attaching a photo of the MIA Greek pilot...Hope the Turkish one is OK...God bless him and his family...And I hope that will be the last death over the Aegean

A young man...Big loss for his Family...RIP...

Bushmaster,

He ain't joking...He's seen AVRT from other Turkish A/C and talked to wingman of the crashed Turkish F-16...If you want to learn what really happened up there, 191Cobra is the MAN who can provide us the information...Do not underestimate him...

Forum: F-16 News

HAF F-16 - TuAF F-16 collide mid-air