Forum: F-16 News

Ok, some facts:

1. Background info:
2 THK F-16C Block 50 from 192Sqn. were escorting an RF-4E towards Crete as they were intercepted by 2 EPA F-16C Block 52+ scrambled frome Crete

2.Planes involved in collision:
THK F-16 C Block 50, pilot st Lt Halil Ibrahim Ozdemir ejected safely
EPA F-16 C Block 52+, pilot cpt. Iliakis MIA, prezumed dead

3. Time and place:
12.48 local time 15 miles S-E of the island Karpathos, in Greek airspace

4. Details: The Turkish Viper was above and in front of the Greek plane, slightly to the left when it dropped altitude quickly and hit with its underside the top of the Greek plane. Probably the Greek pilot didn't had the chance to eject as he was most likely killed upon impact.

The Greeks put a diver into the water near the Turkish pilot but the latter reportedly threatened him with the sidearm and waited to be taken on board a Panamanian cargo ship, from the deck of which he was picked up later by a THK Cougar SAR helicopter.

EDIT: Collisions during mock dogfights occur on a regular basis (once every few years in most Air Forces)
e.g. http://www.angelfire.com/hi/luckypuppy2 ... fc12.html?
or http://www.ilmavoimat.fi/index.php?id=642

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RoAF wrote:

Ok, some facts:

1. Background info:
2 THK F-16C Block 50 from 192Sqn. were escorting an RF-4E towards Crete as they were intercepted by 2 EPA F-16C Block 52+ scrambled frome Crete

2.Planes involved in collision:
THK F-16 C Block 50, pilot st Lt Halil Ibrahim Ozdemir ejected safely
EPA F-16 C Block 52+, pilot cpt. Iliakis MIA, prezumed dead

3. Time and place:
12.48 local time 15 miles S-E of the island Karpathos, in Greek airspace

4. Details: The Turkish Viper was above and in front of the Greek plane, slightly to the left when it dropped altitude quickly and hit with its underside the top of the Greek plane. Probably the Greek pilot didn't had the chance to eject as he was most likely killed upon impact.

The Greeks put a diver into the water near the Turkish pilot but the latter reportedly threatened him with the sidearm and waited to be taken on board a Panamanian cargo ship, from the deck of which he was picked up later by a THK Cougar SAR helicopter.

EDIT: Collisions during mock dogfights occur on a regular basis (once every few years in most Air Forces)
e.g. http://www.angelfire.com/hi/luckypuppy2 ... fc12.html?
or http://www.ilmavoimat.fi/index.php?id=642

You have a good information Wink

Unfortunately the Greek pilot is probably dead. As for the rest of the story, more or less as RoAF describes.

I just want to add that the whole incident happened at about 27000-30000 feet with the EgyptAir commercial jet flying at 34000 when the pilots saw a blast according to Athens Control Tower.

OK! let's speak about the truth...

First of all, I must say that if this website is not taking somebody's side must give the Truth. If you don't know what is the truth then you have the quote what are you saying by telling "this source / Greek government says that.. etc." so it will be a good one.

Now lets speak about the 'Awful truth:'

First of all, the incident occurred in INTERNATIONAL SEA. It s true that it was nearer to the Greek shores but everything has a rule right! 12 miles...

Second; Turkish Air force was flying a planned and declared mission. Those plans are declared prior day to the CAOC (Combined Air Operations Center) which is in Eskisehir and they are closely watched by IFF by both sides. In this case ``like thousands of other`` they were not any breakthrough to the Greek national territory.

Third THEY WERE NO DOGFIGHTING at all.
The Greek air forces came to intercept those guys. Turkish pilots didn`t maneuver at all, because of the rules they told not to. Greek guy couldn`t make a safe conversion and finally crashed the Turkish aircraft and probably died. I m sure that everything is recorded in the vtr.

NOW remember the old stories...
What they told you and what happened in reality.
For an example: Last time a Mirage 2000 Crashed in the water they 'Greek government' said that TURKS killed him but the next day Turkish Government sent the vtr and we all watched him crashing into the sea by himself. It's happening every time. Now before believing what you read try to find more from other sources.

I'm sorry for the Greek guy but no mistake allowed in the air. I'm happy that his fault didn't cause another young life come to an end....

Best regards fly safe...

RoAF wrote:

3. Time and place:
12.48 local time 15 miles S-E of the island Karpathos, in Greek airspace

nope. 15 miles S-E of the island Karpathos is not greek airspace.

Vipertheking, let's not turn the matter into a Greek vs Turkey subject...

As for the info where did you get them if I may?

This information was posted by Meathook in another topic

Meathook wrote:

The body of a Greek pilot was found Tuesday, hours after his fighter jet collided with a Turkish F-16 during a mock dogfight over the southern Aegean Sea, according to Turkey's foreign ministry.

Stefaan

RoAF wrote:

4. Details: The Turkish Viper was above and in front of the Greek plane, slightly to the left when it dropped altitude quickly and hit with its underside the top of the Greek plane. Probably the Greek pilot didn't had the chance to eject as he was most likely killed upon impact

how do you know? What is your source?

Active Member Joined: May 23, 2006 - 03:25 PM Posts: 101

vipertheking wrote:

OK! let's speak about the truth...

I suppose you know the truth. Seems you were there and saw the culprit.

Let's get serious. All information is debatable at this point. And information on past incidents is debatable too, especially when it is unilateralrly interpreted. You probably would prefer to believe everything that whould imply the superiority of Turkish pilot skills and air force ability. This is human. Maybe I would do the same from my own side. I'm sure both air forces prefer more precise and less emotional accounts of facts and after any incident of the sort, try to extract experience in order to perform their mission better. What you and I want to believe is irrelevant.

I don't think a credible description of the incident will come out soon. All the reports are usefull and a more truthfull version of the story ill eventually surface.

The guys up there yours and ours follow orders and fly their wonderful machines with the intention to serve their nation and are all admirable.

P.S. It has been noted that Turkish RF's have had the tendency to fly "training" missions above Greek islands. (I've witnessed it my self while in vacation in a beautiful beach, pretty cool sight for turists: an RF4E fly by and after a few seconds a pair M2000 on pursuit).

I don't care about the details. The fact is that both nations are NATO allies and should not behave like this. From any perspective, it's totally unnecessary to midair, and whatever they were doing they didn't do it well.

RoAF wrote:

Ok, some facts:

1. Background info:
2 THK F-16C Block 50 from 192Sqn.

Block 50 from 192sqn? I think you're wrong as the 192sqn has not block 50s!

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

The tone of that amuses me. It attempts to direct fault to the Turkish plane when in fact if it's accurate the Greek plane was in an aggressive position (below and behind) and should have been the one maintaining clearance. If dropping altitude quickly was enough to cause a collision, could the Turkish pilot even see the Greek jet below him?

What a mess. I guess this can happen when pilots drop trow and whip out rulers in midair.

Greek, Turkish fighter jets crash

Tuesday, May 23, 2006; Posted: 11:57 a.m. EDT (15:57 GMT)

A Greek F-16 fighter jet

The body of a Greek pilot was found Tuesday, hours after his fighter jet collided with a Turkish F-16 during a mock dogfight over the southern Aegean Sea, according to Turkey's foreign ministry.

The Turkish pilot ejected safely and was rescued.

The Greek F-16 had been dispatched to intercept the Turkish jet because it had violated Greek airspace, according to the Greek Defense Ministry.

Both fighter jets were maneuvering around each other in a mock dogfight when the crash happened around 1 p.m. (6 a.m. ET) about 12 miles east of the Greek island of Karpathos, the ministry said. (Click here to see map of area)

The ministry said the crash happened over international waters.

The pilot of an EgyptAir commercial jet witnessed the incident while on a flight to Cairo, a Greek Defense Ministry official said.

The collision highlights an ongoing dispute between Greece and Turkey, both members of NATO, over the boundaries between their airspace and territorial waters.

Archrivals Greece and Turkey regularly criticize each other for causing mock fights between warplanes over the Aegean sea.

Greece's defense ministry says it daily scrambles several fighter jets to intercept Turkish jets that it claims have invaded its airspace.

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul phoned his Greek counterpart Dora Bakoyanni, who is visiting Helsinki, the Greek Foreign Ministry said in a statement, Reuters reported.

"The two foreign ministers expressed their regret for today's incident and agreed that this should not affect the two countries' efforts to improve their relations," the statement said.

The two countries, who came close to war as recently as 1996, have considerably improved ties but have not resolved territorial disputes in the Aegean Sea and over the divided island of Cyprus.

"This incident will not do any good," Thanos Veremis, of the Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy think tank, told Reuters. "I think it will increase Greek frustration."

From both CNN and Foxnews reported from their reporters in that area.....

Active Member Joined: May 23, 2006 - 03:25 PM Posts: 101

NATOVIPER wrote:

RoAF wrote:

Ok, some facts:

1. Background info:
2 THK F-16C Block 50 from 192Sqn.

Block 50 from 192sqn? I think you're wrong as the 192sqn has not block 50s!

NATOVIPER: check this URL, seems that 192 Filo is armed with blk50s. The F-16.Net mentions Blk40 indeed but that could be wrong couldn't it

http://www.turkavi.net/serino.htm

Edit: this site is very thorough. Updated in March 2006. Congrats to the enthusiast who built it

bozz wrote:

NATOVIPER: check this URL, seems that 192 Filo is armed with blk50s. The F-16.Net mentions Blk40 indeed but that could be wrong couldn't it

http://www.turkavi.net/serino.htm

We are currently working on a new units section (old one hasn't been updated in 2 year), so it's very much possible that we don't have the latest block. Our appologies for any confusion.

EDIT: 192 Filo operates block 50 aircraft indeed.

stefaan

bozz wrote:

NATOVIPER: check this URL, seems that 192 Filo is armed with blk50s. The F-16.Net mentions Blk40 indeed but that could be wrong couldn't it

http://www.turkavi.net/serino.htm

192nd sqn hasn't got blk50

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_units_article21.htm
http://www.scramble.nl/tr.htm

Forum: F-16 News

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