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Eagle of course is correct, but if you are a PR puke writing a byline then M 227.3 is a helluva lot more impressive than M 0...

By that same (lack of) reasoning, we are all orbiting the sun at about M 90 right now... Wink

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I got this list from a web page (includes rocket planes, like X-15):

1. X-15 Mach 6.72 354,200 feet
2. SR-71 Blackbird (YF-12) Mach 3.2+ 85,000+ feet
3. MiG-25 Foxbat-A (Ye-266) Mach 3.2 123,524 feet
3. X-2 Mach 3.2 126,200 feet
4. XB-70 Valkyrie Mach 3.1 77,350 feet
5. MiG-31 Foxhound Mach 2.83 67,600 feet
6. MiG-25 Foxbat (Ye-155) Mach 2.8 118,900 feet
7. F-15 Eagle Mach 2.5 60,000 feet
7. F-111 Aardvark Mach 2.5 60,000+ feet
8. X-1 Mach 2.435 90,440 feet
9. Su-24 Fencer Mach 2.4 57,400 feet
10. Tu-144 Charger Mach 2.35 59,055 feet
10. MiG-23 Flogger Mach 2.35 60,700 feet
10. Su-27 Flanker Mach 2.35 59,055 feet
11. F-14A Tomcat Mach 2.34 58,000+ feet
12. F-106 Delta Dart Mach 2.31 57,000 feet
13. IAI Kfir Mach 2.3 75,000 feet
13. English Electric Lightning Mach 2.3 60,000 feet
13. MiG-29 Fulcrum Mach 2.3 59,060 feet
13. F-107 Ultra Sabre Mach 2.3 48,000 feet
14. Tornado ADV Mach 2.2 69,997 feet
14. F-4 Phantom Mach 2.2 62,250 feet
14. Mirage 2000 Mach 2.2 59,055 feet
14. F-104 Starfighter Mach 2.2 58,000 feet
(120,800 feet NF-104A)
14. B-58 Hustler Mach 2.2 64,800 feet
15. F-105 Thunderchief Mach 2.1 52,000 feet
15. A-5 Vigilante Mach 2.1 52,100 feet
16. Su-22 Mach 2.09 59,055 feet
17. Tu-160 Blackjack Mach 2.05 49,200 feet
17. MiG-21 Fishbed Mach 2.05 50,000 feet
17. Concorde Mach 2.05 60,000 feet
18. D558-2 Skystreak Mach 2.005 83,235 feet
19. YF-23 Black Widow II Mach 2 (AB) 65,000 feet
19. F-20 Tigershark Mach 2+ 55,000 feet
19. YF-17 Cobra Mach 2+ 50,000 feet
20. Saab JAS 39 Gripen Mach 2 50,000 feet
20. F-16 Fighting Falcon Mach 2 50,000+ feet
20. Saab 37 Viggen Mach 2 60,039 feet
20. Saab 35 Draken Mach 2 65,600 feet
21. Tu-22M Backfire Mach 1.88 43,635 feet
21. F-14B/D Tomcat Mach 1.88 53,000+ feet
22. Su-34 Mach 1.8 45,890 feet
22. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Mach 1.8 50,000+ feet
22. F-22 Raptor Mach 1.8 (AB) 50,000 feet
23. XF-104 Starfighter Mach 1.79 58,000 feet
24. F-8 Crusader Mach 1.72 58,000 feet
25. F-101B Voodoo Mach 1.66 52,100 feet
26. X-29 FSW Mach 1.6 50,000 feet
27. Tu-22 Blinder Mach 1.52 48,228 feet
27. XF8U-1 Crusader Mach 1.52 58,000 feet
28. SEPECAT Jaguar Mach 1.5 45,930 feet
29. F-5 Freedom Fighter Mach 1.4 50,700 feet
30. F-100 Super Sabre Mach 1.3 51,000 feet
31. X-31 EFMI Mach 1.28 40,000 feet
32. B-1b Lancer Mach 1.25 50,000+ feet
33. F-102 Delta Dagger Mach 1.23 55,000 feet
34. T-38 Talon Mach 1.22 55,000+ feet
35. XF-90 Mach 1.1 39,000 feet
36. MiG-17 Fresco Mach 1.05 52,366 feet
37. F-86 Sabre Mach 1.04 50,800 feet
38. F-117 Nighthawk High Subsonic 45,000 feet
39. AV-8B Harrier II Mach 0.98 41,700+ feet
40. F-94 Starfire Mach 0.97 51,800 feet
41. A-6 Intruder Mach 0.94 42,400 feet
42. Saab 32 Lansen Mach 0.93 52,500 feet
43. F-80 Shooting Star Mach 0.88 46,800 feet
44. BAe Nimrod 2000 Mach 0.87 42,000 feet
45. B-52 Stratofortress Mach 0.86 55,000 feet
46. U-2 Dragon Lady Mach 0.8 90,000 feet
47. C-5 Galaxy Mach 0.79 35,750 feet
48. C-141 Starlifter Mach 0.77 41,600 feet
48. C-17 Globemaster III Mach 0.77 45,000 feet
49. B-2 Spirit Mach 0.72 50,000+ feet
49. P-3 Orion Mach 0.72 28,300 feet
50. A-10 Thunderbolt II Mach 0.67 45,000 feet

the F-16 is in 20, with the saab 39, 37 and 35 with M.2

Don't we all agree that in the '70s the F-16 was first and foremost designed with maneuvrability in mind, not top speed... The X-15 isn't breathing air, the X-43 indeed is. But what's the value of M10 in a tactical situation? I heard that a Viper is only able to do M2 clean at 50,000 ft. Laughing

Newbie Joined: Dec 11, 2004 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

habu2 wrote:

MiG-25 - M2.83
F-15C - M2.5+
MIG-23 - M2.35
F-14A - M2.34

I agree, everything I've read, and studied, including Belenko's book, and "everything I could lay my hands on about the Blackbirds" in the last 20+ years, suggests the MIG-25 is more of a mach 2.8 class aircraft, than a truley mach-3 class machine, let alone sustained mach-3 plus, plus.

The Syrian/Soviet Pilots who overflew Isreal in MIG-25s at 2000mph, "were very lucky to get back alive," to paraphrase Blenenko himself.

The single seat CIA version A12 Blackbird is speculated (educated sources) to have been even a little faster, and had higher cruise altitude capability than even the SR-71.

It's important also to recognise that 1 v 1 in a visual domain dogfight,
the Mig-25 is absolutely dead meat against an F-16, Duh !

There's conflicting opninion these days as to the importance of "speed and performance," in contrast to "capability."

This might just be what this thread is trying to establish.

A good example is the F-18E, wich is pruported to be essentialy subsonic, for most practical purposes, and yet the navy claims it's extranordinary
"capability" makes up for this.

Personely, I don't buy it.

I think the navy made a significant mistake in not developing a subsiquently
re-designed, upgraded, and advanced version of the F-14, wich would have afforded BOTH, "Capabiity" and "Performance" instead of the so-called "super hornet." A case where bussiness interests, and Polictics overruled the best interests of national defence.

I think that the F-16 is a very good compromise, with supersonic performance on tap, and all kinds of "capabilities." As are the F-15s, and thank God there still with us.
MaX

hear hear... The only advantage of excess power and great speed is that you can get high fast, gaining an advantage in an A/A situation and ingress/eggress on your own in initiative

I've seen clean blk 25 w/220e do 1.95 at 38k on FCF on regular basis and 1.2 at 1200AGL W/2 370's, but caused an overtemp.

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