Forum: F-22A Raptor

Active Member Joined: Jan 10, 2005 - 07:58 AM Posts: 137

To anyone out there who berates the F-22A for being too expensive, too long in its development, weak against Sukhois etc, its time for you to eat crow. A big grey crow with 72,000 pounds of thrust. This past weekend at the Langley AFB airshow, the F-22A played a major part by participating in the Heritage Flight and by doing touch and goes with some of the F-15s. However, the way the F-22A took off was pulling to vertical (after a takeoff run that would make an Alaskan bush pilot jealous) and proceeding to climb to at least 8000 feet. But that's nothing! At the top of the climb while still vertical, the power was reduced just enough to bring the aircraft to a full and complete stop for several seconds before shoving the nose over to level flight and hauling butt off to the loitering area south of the base.

This was not the end of it. On Saturday, during the F-15's performance (flown by Jason "Bondo" Costello) the F-22 was "holding" to the south waiting for the Heritage flight to join up. And by holding I mean doing slow flight. And the cobra. And pirouettes. And something that looked like multiple loops except there was no forward motion...just rotation.

The pilot doing the "demo" was Lt. Col. Michael "Dozer" Shower who talked to me about the aircraft later and was a gold mine of unclassified information. In all honesty the jet is so spectacular and his experience with it so vast, we could have talked for hours before hearing "I can't comment on that."

So maybe the F-22A is expensive. Yes it did take a long time to develop from concept to OIC. However, as a county we've spent money on many projects that ultimately led nowhere or fell short of expectations. The Raptor is most decidedly not one of these projects. And for those people online who think they know what it can or can't do because of what they read somewhere in a forum, take heed: When it comes to the Raptor, don't believe the hype...it's way better!

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Can't agree with you more DesignAndConquer, I was also at the air show. The best thing about it was during the F-15C 0demo turning around and watching the Raptor just showing off taking away the spotlight from the Eagle. (Eagle was still impressive though) Definately the most amazing thing I have ever seen and everyone should be proud to have it in our inventory.

I believe in the F-22 however, turning for some WVR dogfight bravado becomes near useless in the world of new generation HOBS / Helmet Heater combos. Including: Why play the game of the legacy jet?...play to your strength.... which is unfair.... As it should be. What excites me about F-22 that you won't see at an air show, is it's ability to really employ contempt of engagement. Shoot first, keep out of reach, reset up and attack again....fast... with mutual support of its other F-22 team players.... at night. A modern artistic interpretation of the F-104 tactics cartoons only with long shots. Including bingo fueling the opponent to death as their packages break up after the first attack in total confusion. At night, it will be like killing someone with a blindfold holding a stick hoping to swing and hit the pinata.

A big SU can put on the prettiest airshow there is, however new gen HOBS heaters are very final. Laughing

I saw a docu` on the world`s top ten fighters. I only saw the part with the Raptor in it. I saw the F-22 rolling continuously. Whilst rolling, a weapons bay door opened and out popped a heater. The damn plane was still rolling as the missile streaked away.

I don`t know how that would offer an advantage in combat but it was mighty good to watch!

snypa777 wrote:

I saw a docu` on the world`s top ten fighters. I only saw the part with the Raptor in it. I saw the F-22 rolling continuously. Whilst rolling, a weapons bay door opened and out popped a heater. The damn plane was still rolling as the missile streaked away.

I don`t know how that would offer an advantage in combat but it was mighty good to watch!

It actually could be an advantage close in. Most existing fighters have severe limitations on 'g' and roll rate while firing missiles. ( I remember reading about F-4 drivers over 'Nam having to steady up and fly level before launching - a real headache when trying to shoot at a MiG-17). The Raptor was designed to fire missiles during manouvering. Just another crushing advantage, like the 9.5G sustained turn rate, ability to supercruise at mach 1.7 @ 60,000 ft., etc.

DesignAndConquer, I am jealous...

Yes, I know I have raised issues about the F-22 on this site about its cost and development time, I would be a liar if I were to try and deny that, BUT I can tell you this, I would have loved to see that baby in the sky.

The F-22 IS the MOST advanced fighter aircraft in the world...PERIOD; there I have said it. I am glad it is on our side...

DesignAndConquer, you wouldn't happen to have any videos of the F-22 at Langley?? Smile

JetBlast....

I was there on Friday and Saturday (with apags) and the F-22 was unreal. There's nothing like it, the take off, the high speed passes, everything. To see the bird up close and talk to some of the drivers was just awesome, really makes me want to get on with college and rotc! I wouldn't doubt that a few more critics may have had a change of heart this weekend at langley, definitely awesome.

You guys are obviously sadly mistaken. The Raptor, while an OK aircraft, is really just an expenses excuse for a 5th generation aircraft. Instead of wasting out money on the F-22 we should have bought IRST equipped F-14s which could obviously defeat any thing out there in the sky with no sweat! Rolling Eyes

-Aaron

Are you serious Tengu? I sincerely hope so.

All well and good but it is still concerning that there isn't a HOBS missile cleared yet for F-22. I know thats why 17sqn have been wooping their **** close in as they have an aircraft designed to launch missiles at high g/extreme manouveurs combo'd with a HOBS.

Give F-22 a HOBS clearance and then, it will become almost unstoppable in the BVR and WVR, at the moment, its losing out badly in the WVR.

Sorry to dissapoint ya Flanker_Hater but I'm making sarcastic reference to an earlier thread. Laughing

-Aaron

boff180 wrote:

All well and good but it is still concerning that there isn't a HOBS missile cleared yet for F-22. I know thats why 17sqn have been wooping their **** close in as they have an aircraft designed to launch missiles at high g/extreme manouveurs combo'd with a HOBS.

Give F-22 a HOBS clearance and then, it will become almost unstoppable in the BVR and WVR, at the moment, its losing out badly in the WVR.

Do you actually have a source for this?

Yeah, 17Sqn themselves Smile

There are 2 semi-permanently deployed to the states now for EW test work. They are 17sqn machines (AA & AC) and they just rotate crews.etc. The USAF are actually paying the RAF for it to tango with F-22 crews on a regular basis is what they are saying. The reason being that its the only thing they have come across that can give it a run for its money!

Andy

boff180 wrote:

Yeah, 17Sqn themselves Smile

There are 2 semi-permanently deployed to the states now for EW test work. They are 17sqn machines (AA & AC) and they just rotate crews.etc. The USAF are actually paying the RAF for it to tango with F-22 crews on a regular basis is what they are saying. The reason being that its the only thing they have come across that can give it a run for its money!

Andy

Yeah I'm sure they're telling you all kinds of confidential info (which this would be) Rolling Eyes

I'd take it with a huge grain of salt. I'm not saying it isn't possible but I'd have to hear something better than "tales at the bar" before I'd believe it.

Yeah know. If only there was a good pc or console game, we could settle this, once and for all. Laughing

Forum: F-22A Raptor

Raptor performance at Langley