Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

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Following the already acclamied best short range AA missile in the world - the Python 4. Refael intrudces the Python 5 with some exciting improvments:

Quote:

Python 5 combines advanced new technologies with operationally proven Python 4 components. The missile incorporates a new dual waveband imaging seeker, advanced computer architecture, Inertial Navigation System (INS), sophisticated Infra-Red Counter-Counter-Measures (IRCCM) and sophisticated flight control algorithms. Python 5 maintains Python 4?s unique aerodynamic airframe, INS, powerful rocket motor, warhead and proximity fuze.

But the most exciting of all:

Quote:

Python 5 provides revolutionary full sphere competence, achieved by a combination of Lock-On-After-Launch (LOAL) and excellent acquisition and tracking capabilities. Its dual waveband Focal Plane Array (FPA) seeker and sophisticated algorithms enable acquisition of even small, low signature targets in Look-Down, adverse background and cloudy environments.

That means that with the python 5 a pilot can now shoot on a any target that is anywhere around you in the missile's range... this really seems to be the start of the end of conventional dog fights when you have to menuvre for a shooting position.
This a great acomplishment for Refael and Israel following an already amazing (for such a small country) history in providing cutting edge Millitry equipment.

I wonder if Sidewinder X or next genration russian/european AA missiles will intrudce simmler full-sphere capbbiltys.

http://www.rafael.co.il/web/rafnew/news/news-120603.htm[/url]

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Thanks for the news - we've added it as a news article as well.

I was wondering - does the pilot use a helmet-mounted sight to designate targets outside of the radar's (and missile sensor's) field of view ?

stefaan

They will never be able to dispense with air combat maneuvering or dogfighting. Even with the full-sphere capability. They will develop ways to counter that. The best heat source is still the engines, and that is the high-percentage shot.

HaroldHutchison wrote:

They will never be able to dispense with air combat maneuvering or dogfighting. Even with the full-sphere capability. They will develop ways to counter that. The best heat source is still the engines, and that is the high-percentage shot.

Concerning the Python 5 capabilities, I also doubt the weapon can aim at targets outside of the max 45 degrees off-boresight usually possible with the use of a conventional HMS, as used by MiG-29 pilots. Uncaging the R-73 is currently possible within that limit only.

Anyway, we know the Israeli DASH helmet allows unlimited head movement, therefore we can imagine target designation is obtained by visual means first, and then target location would be passed on to the missile using another mean than radar or simultaneous missile seeker head swiveling.

Maybe target coordinates are passed on to the weapon using some kind of GPS data, or data provided by the RWR gear ? (provided the targeted aircraft is located at the rear of the firing one). Once the normal imaging seeker head reaches a determined max tracking angle (30-45° ?), it would acquire the target on its own (lock-on after launch).

Anyway, any such maneuver would invariably result in a series of hard turns to reach the given target location, and since the heavy (228,70 lbs) Python 5 doesn?t use thrust vectoring nozzles (though its aerodynamics are quite advanced), speed loss would be enormous.

Concerning head-on attacks resulting from such a maneuver, you?re right to say Harold that probability of hit is reduced, although the missile?s seeker is of the latest generation, providing a very accurate IR imagery.
Any comments are welcome...

I haven't seen anything from the test videos of the AIM-9x that implies that it misses much or that your chances of being alive after one is fired at you is very good at all. The phrase would be: "Say your prayers Rabbit". And as for flares. They might work, but the sensor in the nose is also photo optical, problem with flares is that they go out behind you. Great if the missile will come in from the rear. That won't help you much with the advanced optical head on this thing if it is in its terminal phase on the side or front hemisphere. This thing also has more range and a much better high off boresight ability than the earlier generation R-73 Soviet/Russian
Helmet Heater Combo used by our opponents. There is a newer generation R-73 out there but how much improved that is,(real world not some brochure ) is unknown.

WVR where both sides have this new gen ability will be like a shotgun fight at 5 feet. Best to use these things only as a last resort against an equal opponent and club them down at a distance with volleys of AMRAAMs. I don't care how many AMRAAMs are fired. Just fire enough of the things and don't be stingy with them. Buck rogers defensive gear hasn't advanced enough ( if it ever can ) to increase your survival much against these new generation high-off-bore-sight heater / helmet thingys, let alone the older R-73.

The idea is don't fight fair and have a contempt of engagement of these close in weapons. The only goal is to win and I don't care how you do it as long as you get to go home.

Yes, if every fighter is equipped with such missiles, starting a WVR combat would be a very dangerous bet.

I am very doubtful about full-sphere capacity:

Even if you have a HMS that allows you to designate targets anywhere around you, the guidance head of the missiles will not be able to follow your glance if it involves a too much off-boresight angle. It means that the missile will have to rely first on coordinates to hit a target before being able to acquire it with its own guidance head. In the time needed to do so, the actual position of the target may have changed a lot, especially in a high-speed and short-range A2A combat.
Moreover, more than 90° turns implies high loss of energy. I really wonder how a Python 5 or a AIM-9X would be able to go on chasing a maneuvering target after a near 180° turn.

I was thinking about all these HMS. Basically the idea behind them is: if you can see them, you can hit them. But at the same time this provides you with an escape of sorts. If you manage to stay out of the other guy's FOV, then you might just have a chance of not getting one up your tail pipe or down you throat. As for the energy loss, it makes quite a case, but let's not forget that these things are supposed to fly at Mach 3, maybe more and they have a range of several nautical miles, before their engines burn out. What does this mean? they might just have enough fuel left after the turn to make up for the lost speed and kill their targets.

Other than that, about high off-boresight shots; I remember I read that one of the ideas for the F-22 was to have the HMS linked to the datalink and draw squares around the planes when they came into the helmet's FOV. I guess it could be done, so what i'm thinking is, maybe they have another "sensor or something liek that permanently present on the helmet visor and when you move it over a square representing a plane... ta-da!! you got a lock... well, kind of, anyways...

Okee, the next generation of HMS will so good that targets can be aquired 90 deg. off boresight. So that problem is solved...

Forum: F-16 Armament & Stores

Rafael Introduces Python 5 - Full Sphere AA missile