Forum: Military Aircraft of the Cold War

USMC Looks To Revive OV-10s For Use In Iraq

By Joshua Kucera, JDW Staff Reporter, Washington, DC

Jane's Defence Weekly
April 12, 2006

The U.S. Marine Corps is looking at the possibility of reviving the retired
OV-10 Bronco observation aircraft for use in Iraq, according to a top service
official.

The aircraft, which was retired from U.S. service in 1994, would be used to
augment surveillance of roads in Iraq.

Having additional aircraft there could increase the chances of U.S. forces
detecting the emplacement of roadside bombs or improvised explosive devices (IEDs), some service officials believe.

"If this is a capability we think that will take out the IED or help us
catch the IED maker ... you bet [we are interested]," a senior marine commander told Jane's.

Service officials, with the help of an association of retired OV-10 pilots,
have identified aircraft and pilots that could be used in Iraq, he said.

The Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory has been tasked to examine the cost of such a plan and the concept of operations it might use, the
commander added.

However, not all marine officials are enamoured with the idea.

Lieutenant General John Castellaw, the service's deputy commandant for
aviation, told Jane's he thought the experience of the Gulf War showed that the aircraft was too vulnerable.

Marsh Aviation, which manages the inventory of the government-owned OV-10s and does upgrade work for international OV-10 customers, could
remanufacture 10 or 12 of the aircraft suitable for military use by piecing
together parts of various aircraft, said Floyd Stilwell, Marsh Aviation's chief
executive officer.

The company could start delivering aircraft within 10 months at a normal
production rate and faster if the government paid for it, Stilwell said.

The OV-10 proposal is one of many schemes - often secretive - to revive
retired aircraft or convert civilian aircraft for use in operations in Iraq and
elsewhere.

The U.S. Army has converted at least three Shorts 360-300 aircraft under the name Constant Hawk to do surveillance in Iraq and the sea lanes
of the Middle East. Two of the aircraft collided with each other in Wisconsin in
February shortly before they were to be sent to Iraq.

Mohawk Technologies of Florida has operated a fleet of six OV-1 Mohawk
reconnaissance aircraft under a U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) contract for about 12 months, said Paul Pefley, the company's president. Pefley
declined to say where the aircraft were being operated or for which branch of the DoD. The OV-1 was retired from U.S. Army use in 1996.

Most of the non-traditional aircraft plans, however, have gone nowhere and
have been openly advocated only by a collection of veterans associations and a handful of members of Congress.

There is a growing constituency, however, of people who believe that
Soldiers and Marines in Iraq need better real-time intelligence and look back to the Vietnam-era Forward Air Controllers (FACs) as a model of how
counterinsurgency can be fought from the air.

Those FACs were more tightly integrated with small units than the surveillance aircraft used today, and more effective, the Congressional staff member said.

"The air force is looking at all this, but very quietly," he said. "There's
really a gap in combat information at a platoon commander, convoy
leader level that is real and as real-time as you can hope to have it. We've
got dozens of systems operating over there but there's a big logjam in the
[intelligence] pipeline, and everyone knows it."

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What is suprising is that if you know you are going to do a bug hunt in region x, there should be 24/7 UAV coverage that also has eyes on the patrol(s). Are the Marines left out in the cold again by virtue of not having access to assets that are already in theater?

The OV-10 was a great aircraft (especially the OV-10D model with the gun turrent in the rear). But I don't think its very survivable in a modern battlefield. I think the marines would be better served by an U.A.V. doing recon, and I agree with Elp - why isn't this being done already?

The answer to why it's not being done already is because the USAF was being ran by a bunch of fighter guys fro way to long, a bunch of fighter guys who could not see the true value of UAV's and almost refused to send the ground commanders what they wanted and desperately needed. Hopefully those days are behind us and we can start giving the boys on the ground the tools they need to win the fight. It's obvious that they are tired of waiting for the USAF to give them the tools, so they are taking matters into their own hands. Semper Fi I say.

At the end of their life the OV-10's had massive corrosion problems due to the lower wing skins being made of magnesium alloy. The forest service has at least one of their aircraft grounded for this problem right now.

I think that they could make the T6 Texan into a CAS aircraft with ATHS better and faster than they could revive the Bronco.

The T6 Texan proposal reminds me a lot of the Navy's AH-1 Skyraiders (of Vietnam era). I still think such an aircraft would be way too vulnerable to AAA over a modern battlefield. Two Cents

Over 2 years later, and this idea went nowhere, and is effectively dead. The Marines will not be returning the Bronco to service.

So, in the interest of discussing a great FAC aircraft from Vietnam and the Gulf War, I've decided to change it up a little bit...a new thread name could bring about a more broad topic.

It would be great to hear from anyone with experience around the Bronco.

The PAVE NAIL missions would be especially interesting to hear about...Gums, you up?

TC in the interests of opening up the discussion can I offer up the Piper Enforcer - the ability to deliver FAC with style. This is not your grandad's Mustang. Probably does not have enough P sub S to get out of a high threat environment but should be good for convoy cover and local encounters.

Picture is from Wikipedia

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I've heard of this one before. There's one on display at Wright Pat. Interesting development of what was one of the best fighters ever built.

TC You might as well look good when you are giving someone a bad day.

Sort of like Sharon Stone's philosophy...

Last edited by asiatrails on Dec 05, 2008 - 05:34 AM; edited 1 time in total

You just had to ask . . . .

Picture is from Google, nice cigar & socks !!!

<<edit>>
(Sorry Asia, I had to keep it "Disney Channel" around here)

Looks like the OV-10 Bronco isn't dead yet according to this flightglobal blog http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... 0x-br.html
And Asiatrails might be happy to hear that an PA-48 Enforcer and an upgraded AT-6 are also in the running.

Osan was giving incentive rides to us A-10 Crew Chiefs in the OV-10 (for obvious reasons) and guys were saying it was the SCARIEST ride they ever had. They were flying in between trees!!