Forum: F-22A Raptor

F-22 is competing with other US fighters and the Europeans.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... ement.html

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Interesting.

Maybe somebody can shed some light on this, but how much are the Russians selling Su-whatevers for? Of the fighters listed, as probables....Rafales, super hornets and Tiffies....do any of them match up with a Russian design? F-22s are a pipe dream....even the Japanese couldn't afford close to 100 of them, and the F-35 won't be available. What's an F-15 FX? I'd think an F-15E variant would be viable as well, huh?

Hard to say... aren't they still stinging from the moronic procurement decisions of the F2? Might be some unique procurement this time around ?

I dont think that this would go down. Two Cents

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-4891.html

I think its a reasonable possiblity. In this instance, Japan is a much closer (ideologically and politically) ally than some of our FMS mistakes in the past (i.e Iran, Afghanistan). Also, in this instance we are faced with the problem that the jets are basically too expensive for us to afford on our own. We simply cant buy as many raptors as we want. Note that the FMS of a raptor to Japan would provide a double benefit 1) reducing costs of US jets by a) economy of scale lowering production costs and b) speading R+D over a larger number of jets AND 2) being a force multiplier in the SW Asia theater. If Japan had raptor capabilities, that would free up our raptor assets to provide force projection elsewhere. Of course, critical technologies could be restrained if the US so chose, but sales of the airframe are not necessarily a bad thing.

elp wrote:

Hard to say... aren't they still stinging from the moronic procurement decisions of the F2? Might be some unique procurement this time around ?

What exactly is the deal with the F-2. All i know is that there have been significant problems. Is there a good source for this that details this information? Any inclination as to why the problems existed?

Good NEWS for Japan

A Lockheed Martin official has confirmed that a proposal to sell Japan F-22s in some form of downgraded "international variant" is working its way through the Air Force with the support of the Japanese government, and is now "at the three- or four-star level" and among civilian decision-makers. Yet the F-22's extensive and not fully-revealed capabilities have made many in the USA very nervous about exporting it, and thereby risking a security breach around its electronic architecture, stealth aspects, or next-generation data links. The aircraft's $130 million flyaway cost also makes all but the most serious buyers hesitate.

Quote:

Maybe somebody can shed some light on this, but how much are the Russians selling Su-whatevers for? Of the fighters listed, as probables....Rafales, super hornets and Tiffies....do any of them match up with a Russian design?

Su-30K costs about $33mil 1998 price.
Su-30MKK/MK2 costs about $38mil 1998 price.
Su-30MKI costs about $45mil 1998 price.
Su-30MKM costs about $50mil 2003 price.

Yes the Rafales, Hornets, Eagles and Typhoons do match up to Russian fighters and are supeiror in many ways to Russian fighters. But the Rafales, Hornets and Typhoons are much more expensive. The Typhoon costs almost twice as much as a Su-30MKK. But I don't think that we will be seeing a Su-30MKJ any time soon.
As for the F-15 FX, I don't know how much it costs, since prices vary from version to version.

Japan will NOT buy Russian aircraft. Theyre logistics and systems arent made for it.

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Japan will NOT buy Russian aircraft. Theyre logistics and systems arent made for it.

The main reason is political - Russia still holds some Japanese islands captured at the end of WW2

No, its because their whole logistics and training are set up around western aircraft and western producers. Besides the point, buying an Su-XX is a step in the wrong direction.

On the F-2

This aircraft is about the same size and weight of the F-15. Cept, only one engine. 3x the cost of a normal F-16. No wonder its not a popular idea in Japan anymore.

Maybe a package deal is in order? 80 F-22As and 100 F-35s? :p

Personally, I think the Raptor will be exported in the years to come for several reasons. First, the USAF just can't procure the numbers needed to provide a viable air defense world wide. If, world events from Lebanon to Iraqi to North Korea don't convince the US Goverment. I don't know what would? Then throw in a possible Chinese/Taiwan Conflict and I think many will see my point. During the height of the Cold War the US sold F-15's to friendly countries like Israel, Japan, and Saudi Arabia. While, I don't see the Raptor being exported on the same scale as the F-15A/C Eagle. I could see it easily purchased by say Japan and/or Australia. This in turn would give the US room to breath in two major conflicts happening at one time. Let's also not forget the Billions that would be made and the US jobs that any said purchase would create. Really, business is business and politics is politics! Selling F-22's would be good business and is in its strategic interests....... Cool

Here's hoping that it never will.....

................................ F-16 block40...block60......F-15C......F-15E.......F-2A
Empty weight (kg).............8273.........9979.......12973.....14515.....9527
Max takeoff weight (kg)...19187....... 20866......30845......36740...22100
Wing span(m).....................9.5..............9.5..........13.1.........13.1.....11.1

F-2 is much smaller than F-15C/E. Actually it is lighter than
F-16 block 60.

As for unit cost, F-2 is not so far from block60.

Anyway what JASDF wants is a replacement for aging F-4, not for F-2.

Obviously there is something at fault with the F-2... the JASDF seems to have buyer's remorse with it.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

Will Japan be the first export customer?