Forum: General

SSgt Davis, you took an excellent photo. As to how the photo got here, I don't know. But it's how things get around nowadays, if it gets one place, it's gotten to all places of the intraweb.

D1x....that's a DSLR, yes?
I have a DRebel myself Wink

F-16.net Sponsor

nikon_warrior (SSgt Davis), thanks for posting here. I don't think there was ever any doubt among the people on this board that the photo was genuine, even if the photographer was a mystery (until now). I hope you get the recognition you deserve for taking a truly breathtaking photograph. Also hope you aren't having to take any heat for the photo being out on the web.... If and when your work is cleared for release I hope you will share some more of your photographs with us.

Of course I have to ask, is there a snowball's chance of the video being released?

blackviper1 wrote:

I have seen a few of the pictures and vid clips of this incident. In my opinion this incident did not have to happen. It looks like the pilot could have recovered the aircraft even though he entered the maneuver too low. Am I wrong or am I not seeing it correctly?

What exactly is your basis for making this judgment? How many hours in the viper do you have? Sounds to me like you're just talking out your %&$#.

For discussions regarding the mishap itself, please post in the topic called <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-126.html">Thunderbird crash 14 Sep 2003</a>.

See also: <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-483.html">T-Bird crash accident report released</a>

nikon_warrior wrote:

I have noticed all over the internet the shot I had taken of the Thunderbird crash at Mountain Home AFB, ID and though I am not at liberty to share the photo;

It was an experience and though I can't officially make any comments to the matter, I would like to say Capt Stricklin saved lives... enough said.

What legal reason is the USAF using to stop you from sharing the photo or your thoughts about the matter?

Maybe because they are his employer? Wink

Since SSgt Davis is in the Air Force I am sure he understands the concept of following orders. That's his job. I don't think legality has anything to do with it.

Actually an order is a legal issue. As a photographer of the USAF all his work is officially owned by the USAF. Any photograph or video that is produced by the USAF needs to be officially cleared for release before it is published. As a web page designer I try to follow the military rules on this because I don't want to alienate any sources. I have had photos released by the military in the past, and it takes time to do.

As to his thoughts it is standard procedure to order all witnesses and interested parties to a mishap investigation to not reveal their opinions to people not a party to the investigation. This is for a couple of reasons, first to protect the rights of the mishap participants, and second to prevent undue influence on the investigation. In other words, if an insider told you incorrectly that the plane crashed due to a failure of a gizmo, and you were later interviewed by the mishap board and told them that the gizmo failed, they would have to disregard any other information you provided as the info is tainted. Since info in this day and age of the Internet moves at near the speed of light, any leaks can be magnified and can go back to the mishap review board tenfold overnight.

A good mishap board wants to do their job without any outside influence, or preconcieved notions. They should be examining all the evidence and providing an unbiased report on what caused the mishap. They can't have witnesses colluding even tangentally to prevent accidental biasing of their report.

The mishap report has been released, however the SSgt has not officially had his orders changed. Hopefully in the future he can tell us more about what happened there.

Kevin
The Ejection Site

The photo has just apparently been officially released. <a href="http://www2.acc.af.mil/accnews/jan04/0012.html">News Release</a>

Thanks SSgt Davis for a great photo!!!

Kevin
The Ejection Site

SSgt Davis Great shot it's all skill with a little luck thrown in. If the AF ever allows you to release the whole sequence it would be interesting to see. Good luck.

Giles wrote:

nikon_warrior wrote:

I have noticed all over the internet the shot I had taken of the Thunderbird crash at Mountain Home AFB, ID and though I am not at liberty to share the photo;

It was an experience and though I can't officially make any comments to the matter, I would like to say Capt Stricklin saved lives... enough said.

what legal reason is the USAF using to stop you from sharing the photo or your thoughts about the matter?

Rules- All Photos taken by official USAF photogs on official jobs is USAF property. * Especially if it is with US gov/equipment. The only authority to put USAF photos to the public is USAF Public Affairs and or the local unit Public Affairs, which in the case of a Class A mishap the local ain't going to release anything. Period. Obviously some sly gov contractor got this image and thought it was cool to share. Also in the case of something like a Class A mishap ( which I have been on too many ) once the accident investigaion team signs on to the base, they have absolute control over all of the photos. They pretty much trust the photo pukes to keep the photos in their area until the job is printed up. And then everything goes over to them. If it is a Class A where multi-service people ( both lets say Army and USAF ) were lost or there is no competent local photogs a joint service phorensic science team comes in at the orders of DOD. ( they have a real IMHO bad taste unit patch. A skull holding the dead mans hand ( Aces and 8's ). ( who ever approved that should be fired )

Me? Im a USAF Photog ( Civilian ) ( Robins AFB)

was- an enlisted Photog 23172 1980-92

Carswell
Misawa
Alconbury
Barksdale

And a bunch of places in between LOL.

oh yeah as mentioned alrealy Pro Digital Cams don't lag that much, You have to have a camera that is go time when you push the shutter. A sub $500 am cam doesn't always do that.

* One reason civilian publications love military provided photos..... its free.

blackviper1 wrote:

It looks like the pilot could have recovered the aircraft even though he entered the maneuver too low. Am I wrong or am I not seeing it correctly?

He was justified and correct to leave the aircraft when he did. All demo maneuvers have built-in safety buffers (min altitudes and airspeeds for entry and exit, for instance). From the Mishap Report, it looks like it was an incorrect MSL altitude judgement at the start of the Split-S. Once he determined he couldn't save the manuever, he redirected away from the crowd and jettisoned the aircraft.

The MP had tons of Viper time as a pilot, flight lead, and instructor. It just illustrates that even given all of that, flyin' fighters can be and is unforgiving of mental slip-ups. It happens more often than the public is aware. This time it was more public than most.

blackviper1 wrote:

Am I wrong or am I not seeing it correctly?

Both!

Why don't you guys check out the other thread on the mishap. Lots of great detail there on possiblilties, and then read the mishap report thread. Both have great discussions.

Kevin
The Ejection Site

Forum: General

Thunderbird crash photo (head-on)