Forum: F-22A Raptor

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

JR, Roscoe, Link: Well said. The KEY POINT here is the R&D is done, bought, purchased and paid for. You can't lump that into the unit cost to get an actual measue of what it'll cost to build an extra jet, or more to the point how much you 'save' by not building an extra jet.

And Hans, it's not about having enough money to buy jets, it's about political manuvering about which Senator is pissy with who about what dollars are going to which state. Your 'example' of flying to Paris makes no sense.

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Quote:

You might also consider seriouly reducing the number of ships the navy has. When I look at that I realy wonder who you want to fight at high seas? The EU russia and china together all at the same time?

With the money saved there the USA might be able to fix what they broke in the middle east

Talk about attempting to hijack a thread and insert an irrelevant political opinion and give advice to no one in particular. Do you do this often Hansundfranz? What does the navy and your opinion about the Middle East have to do with this thread? Please take your paranoid rantings about the US wanting to start wars with other countries elsewhere while your at it. JL Raleigh NC

hansundfranz wrote:

OK lets see:
X development cost
Y production costs per airplane

1.
X + Y *178 = 338 * 178
X + Y * 178 = 60164

2.
X + Y * 438 = 100 * 438
x + Y*438 = 43800

OK does not make sense, It CAN NOT Be ceaper to build 438 planes then to build 178 planes (total costs)

OK, if we go with 85 million production costs and want to find out how many planes you need to build to end up with 100 million total costs it would go like this

1.
X + 85 * 178 = 337 * 178
X + 15130 = 60164
X = 44856 depevlopment costs

then
2.
Z= number of airplanes
44856 + 85*Z = 100 *Z
44856 = 15 * Z
44856 / 15 = Z = 2990,4
If production costs of 85 million would be true, to reach a total price of 2990 planes would have to be build

OK I know that production costs are not totally constant as numbers go down so lets say you need to build 2000 planles (almost 1/3rd less then calculated above) to reacj that 100 million pricetag

Total program costs would then be
2000 * 100 + 44856 = 245 Billion $
compared to 60 billion right now

Cost of going into any stiff integrated air defense and gang raping it with the F-22: Priceless. Laughing

elp wrote:

Cost of going into any stiff integrated air defense and gang raping it with the F-22: Priceless. Laughing

Man....now there's a mental image, eh wot?! Laughing

I had no idea I had the capability to projectile snort a Mick Ultra thru my nose! Thanks for helping me realize my true potential! Wink

Gee mastiff, talk about insecure. I never said they plan to fight EU russia and china together all at the same time.
Just that they buy ships like they would like to.

@Elp. so who would have that excellent highly modern IADS that requires the F22?

What is hans talking about I cannot fallow your sentence fragments and "words that don't belong". Face it, these guys know what they are talking about they have worked in the defense field and know how this unique market works... You don't have a leg to stand on brother. I think this all stems from jealousy that the US can beat the sh*t out of anybody and anything that thinks otherwise. Good point on the euro-gilopy (I mean fighter) Laughing

hansundfranz wrote:

Gee mastiff, talk about insecure. I never said they plan to fight EU russia and china together all at the same time.
Just that they buy ships like they would like to.

@Elp. so who would have that excellent highly modern IADS that requires the F22?

Look at the Pacific in the next 30 years super genius. And now? China, and NK. Where your hyper-ventilating about such a small number of F-22s does not hold water. A small amount of airframe putting 24/7 domination over an area means you don't need 2 or 3 squadrons of F-15s picking their way though SAM umbrella and exposing themselves. More. F-22 is here now. And it is pretty much water under the bridge. We have a no peer group package. This allows for directing more airframes toward strike.... where strike, and interdiction is done in an environ where there are no enemy fighters and large SAMs are subdued. If you want to put your cost benefit evaluations to some use. Use that against the Joint Strike Fighter. We simple DO NOT NEED the JSF. ..... AND where we DO need new R&D to put a REAL no peer group twin engine combat jet on the carrier deck. NOT doing that is a serious lack of thought. JSF really isn't the solution the Navy needs. When I say "Navy" I mean real carrier pros and not pencil neck accountants that are running the Navy.

We are going to find that the F-22 over it's life will do a lot. Even more interesting is when the sensors are upgraded, adding to its ability as an asset that not only can go after legacy airframes like clubbing baby seals.... not only kick down the door and hit priorty targets with the SDB and the wonderful BLU-110 mated to JDAM to make the GBU-35..... but also in the same mission be doing really great C2-ISR feeds ( electronic recon and denial of NCW to the enemy ) feeds as it will be just another node on the network. A node that can go anywhere it wants in a NK, Taiwan, or other scenario. And.... just having it makes it a show stopper for any aggressors 2nd generation warfare planning. It will fail. Meaning the aggressor will have to result to 3rd generation state sponsored terror... or 4th gen ( stateless terror )..... F-22 makes most aggressors second gen warfare unwinable. And at the rate we are making friends in the world with our current dumb policies..., We need this ability if we are going to be on the stupid path that is TEAM AMERICA: World Police. I don't like expeditionary warfare. I think it is a waste. However if we are going to have dumb leadership that likes that sort of thing, We need to smack down an aggressor with 2nd gen warfare intentions immediately. I don't like war. But if it was up to me. The first time the dear leader of NK opens his yap, I'd tac nuke the hell out of NK.... have a nice meal,.... watch a movie,... and go to bed and sleep well. I don't need a persmission slip from the insurgent clowns in the U.N. for anything.

Great reply, elp Thumb

!

elp wrote:

But if it was up to me. The first time the dear leader of NK opens his yap, I'd tac nuke the hell out of NK.... have a nice meal,.... watch a movie,... and go to bed and sleep well. I don't need a persmission slip from the insurgent clowns in the U.N. for anything.

Now tell us how you really feel Laughing

!!!

elp wrote:

We are going to find that the F-22 over it's life will do a lot. Even more interesting is when the sensors are upgraded, adding to its ability as an asset that not only can go after legacy airframes like clubbing baby seals....

Again I'm snorting. Gotta quit drinkin' and readin' this board at the same time. It's gettin' messy! Wink

Dear all,

This is my very first post to this wonderful forum.

I will start here since I saw this thread which touches among other things on the viability of the Raptor, the most sought after jet of our times.

In this sense and after reading carefully all the posts I will have to agree with elp also.

The capabilities offered from the Raptor are of a quality that can not be found either now or in the future by any other airframe be it a totally new-different design or modernization of older aircraft(s).

Trying to use the seemingly right issue of cost to trash the F-22A demonstrates as ViperTommy quite rightly put it some sort of agenda towards the US from the contributor of such comments.

I think therefore that we should all proceed with the view that the F-22 establishes totally new levels of capabilities as far as Air Warfare Operations are concerned, capabilities which will remain unmatched for the greatest if not all of the duration of this most capable aircraft's operational life.

If you believe I am wrong I can stand corrected since it is my very first post in the site but from what I 've seen posters like elp, TC, calhoun, falconfixer and many others who have actual USAF/LM experience to name but a few demostrated with very analytical comments in past posts that the F-22 is a most viable program and that it rightly deserves its place as the leading fighter jet aircraft of our times as well as many to come.

So, hello to all once again and I hope that I will be in the future able to share some of my knowledge as well on militray aviation matters after absorbing the knowledge of the other more accomplished in these matters forum members of course.

Kind Regards,

TS.

Well you are too kind. I am just the court jester here. However this site has numerous first hand experts that make it a really great place to learn. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks elp.

It is truly amazing how many F-16 pilots as well as maintainers are here.

I am sure that with time I will get to know you all and share our passion and love for not only the F-16, F-22 or other fighter jets but military aviation in general.

TS.

Lets just say that f16.net is a perfect example of the inmates running the institution Cool

Probably right....I just got a PM asking me to shank someone for a couple cartons of cigs. Laughing

elp wrote:

Probably right....I just got a PM asking me to shank someone for a couple cartons of cigs. Laughing

elp I was loughing for at least 5 mins continuously after reading this Laughing

Nicely said from you I have to admit Laughing

Forum: F-22A Raptor

Potential flaw found in F-22A fighter jets