Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

Both BAC & Hawker Siddley made proposals. If you want a deep dive there is an excellent book called "British Secret Fighter Projects" that describes most.

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Jag, don't knock it!

- Can turn very tight,
- can carry quite a heavy load whilst at the same time carrying a designator, ecm, 2x fuel tanks and 2 sidewinders.
- Can land and take-off on grass strips.
- Has a HMS.
- Has uprated engines.
- One of the most stable weapon delivery platforms ever, better than the tornado for ad-hoc attacks - RAF.
- And at the same time, looks great!

Andy

nothing wrong with a Jaguar???? Are you kidding me??

It can carry a tiny load a tiny distance and is unable to defend itself. It's one redeeming grace is that it's cheap to run.

Make that two, it's also operated by one of the world's top air forces.

Not able to defend themselves???
2x Aim-9 or M.550 on over-wing pylons increasing the missile engagement envelope in a turning fight. Coupled with 2 Cannon. In a "safe" area of ops, the Sidewinders can be replaced with CRV-7 launchers.

The number of F-3 pilots that have been surprised at getting out-turned and gun-killed by a Jag, is a testiment to its ability.

It doesn't need long legs it was designed as a front-line CAS/strike platform, to be close to the front operating from fields or roads, drop its load, come back and continue the fight. A war where airfields have been detroyed. There are not many afterburning western fast jets that can operate from grass strips!

It excelled itself in the Gulf performing numerous CAS missions, dropping BL-755 and rocket attacks. The only reason it wasn't sent to GW2 was that it was grounded for a issue regarding an engine upgrade.

Its now slowly being retired (one squadron remains) as its replaced by Typhoon.

The reason it didn't go to GW2 was because the Turkish airbases it was going to use were withdrawn at the last minute.

Beating an F3 in WVR is no advert for Jaguar. It's hard to think of a fighter that can't. Phantom maybe?

Hahaha, had to laugh at some of the previous comments...

The Jaguar has always been considered very underpowered. When carrying anything like a significant load it puffs and wheezes, especially at altitude, where Jags` just don`t go! The Jag` is as I mentioned, a super, cheap, lightweight short range striker. It is no Viper. It`s GW1 record though is worth looking at...

I am pretty sure RAF pilots would have LOVED to have had the Viper, but F-16 was not a way to keep the European aerospace industry alive now was it!

Now, Blackburns supersonic Bucc` was interesting but would have been too problematic to realise as well as being a tad expensive..

Take away ASRAAM, a Cessna could out turn and gun an F-3 close in! You can`t turn a bomber into a fighter, you can turn a bomber into an interceptor though, which is what the F-3 is...

Anyway, wasn`t this thread about the Rafale! With the Bush/Blair recent news item it looks impossible that the UK would need Rafale, let alone consider it.....

Going off topic happens many times snypa, maybe you spent too much time in Deutschland, hehehe. Ronooo, you complain about the Jag, but the Indians are very content with this shortlegged plane in a large country.

define "very content" - this is after all the crowd that put the Gnat into front line service.

snypa, thanks for the chuckles. Trouble is the RAF is so bleedin good they'd turn a cessna into a decent war machines but it's still a total dog at the end of the day. Just like the Jag Smile

One of my favorite aircraft books is Roy Boot's autobiography where he tells the story of the Bucc and its proposed follow ons. A huge opportunity missed by the myopic RAF fast jet mafia in my opinion.

RonO, will have to look that book up....I had always believed that the proposed Buccs were just too ambitious. Blackburn wanted to just stretch, enlarge and up-engine the Bucc` but it wasn`t such a simple task..That is only what I vaguely know so could be a country mile off!

This was also during the time of TSR2/ big carrier (read proper carrier) cancellations et al.

Locum, Germany is nice! It is good being in a country where everything seems to work! Ie, trains on time, traffic that actually moves! Reliable summers! Ahh, bliss! Oh, and lovely steaks, beer, and Frauleins! Cool

define 'very content': The Indian AF regards it's Shamsher (Jag) planes as trusted war horses. They use them since 07-27-79, they have upgraded them with laser designators which can also be used by the Mirage 2000, new dig. auto pilot, radar jammer and RAM on the inlets. The IAF wants to keep them flying untill 2020.
Und Germany is nice, except Berlin and Northern GERMany.

Horses - that would be about right, not much good at flying either Smile

RonO wrote:

The reason it didn't go to GW2 was because the Turkish airbases it was going to use were withdrawn at the last minute.

Beating an F3 in WVR is no advert for Jaguar. It's hard to think of a fighter that can't. Phantom maybe?

Well,they were in the neighborhood,54 Squadron had Jags at Incirlik while we were there when the GW2 started.Of course they were stuck in the HAS's just as we were due to the Turkish government.

indian air force competition is the hottest thing around in the fighter circles after the f-35 [Link pending approval] may have a chance but our american jets are kiss a$$ fighters,,so i think they should buy super hornet block [Link pending approval] comes with aesa,,,aim-9x,,,link 16,,jhmcs,,idecm,,jassm,,jsow ,,jdam,,,amraam aim-120d
IT CAN KILL RAFALE ANYDAY

Quote:

indian air force competition is the hottest thing around in the fighter circles after the f-35 programme...rafale may have a chance but our american jets are kiss a$$ fighters,,so i think they should buy super hornet block 2...it comes with aesa,,,aim-9x,,,link 16,,jhmcs,,idecm,,jassm,,jsow ,,jdam,,,amraam aim-120d
IT CAN KILL RAFALE ANYDAY

And what has this got to do with the subject of the thread???

Personally, I doubt very much that the UK is going to leave the JSF Program. If, it did and that is extremly unlikey..............The Super Hornet would be a better choice than the Rafale. Rolling Eyes

Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

Rafale for the UK - Is it possible?