Forum: F-16 Procedures

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 - 09:19 AM Posts: 1092

Just so everyone knows, all performance charts for aircraft are generally given for standard atmospheric conditions. Then there are conversions provided for non-standard conditions and sometimes (depending on what kind of chart), additional curves for non-standard conditions.

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Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 - 09:19 AM Posts: 1092

Destro wrote:

Doc Z-

I'm not a viper driver, but a little birdy said to use 350 KCAS for a climb speed as a standard number. No level a 10K to accellerate, just 350 to the TOC. They do use a max endurance speed too that the computer calculates, an example of this would be when you come off a tanker and have 100mi of drive time to the bombing range. I guess there is a standard speed for the climb and a speed that changes for max endurance in cruise. Hope that answers your question.

Destro

350 KCAS would be the rule of thumb for a drag index of around 200 until reaching Mach 0.8. After reaching Mach 0.8, holding 350 KCAS instead of Mach 0.8 would NOT be beneficial. DI = 200 is not a super high drag index, but it's a bit up there. Probably something like 4 A-A missiles, jammer pod, wing tanks, and a couple of bombs or AGMs. Once the bombs and tanks come off though, you're going to want to climb at faster speeds.

Quote:

Destro wrote:
Doc Z-

I'm not a viper driver, but a little birdy said to use 350 KCAS for a climb speed as a standard number. No level a 10K to accellerate, just 350 to the TOC. They do use a max endurance speed too that the computer calculates, an example of this would be when you come off a tanker and have 100mi of drive time to the bombing range. I guess there is a standard speed for the climb and a speed that changes for max endurance in cruise. Hope that answers your question.

Destro

350 KCAS would be the rule of thumb for a drag index of around 200 until reaching Mach 0.8. After reaching Mach 0.8, holding 350 KCAS instead of Mach 0.8 would NOT be beneficial. DI = 200 is not a super high drag index, but it's a bit up there. Probably something like 4 A-A missiles, jammer pod, wing tanks, and a couple of bombs or AGMs. Once the bombs and tanks come off though, you're going to want to climb at faster speeds.

I was told that you don't use a mach number and this was by somebody that flew a sortie last night, 350 KCAS all the way to the TOC. I don't fly F-16's so I could'nt tell you for sure, maybe one of the drivers could chime in here if they can.

Elite 1K Joined: Aug 19, 2004 - 09:19 AM Posts: 1092

We're talking about most efficient climb to an altitude. This has nothing to do with whether KCAS is specified in terms of navigation to/from a waypoint. If you want to make the most efficient climb to the altitude specified by your flight plan, you use the type of info I quoted from a Block 25 -1 manual. The numbers are not the same for all blocks, but they are pretty close. This stuff is all in the flight manuals that pilots are required to be current on. If they open theirs up and look at the climb performance section they will find exactly the type of numbers I listed. I assure you of that. Whether those climb profiles are regularly used or not, I have no clue. I'm no pilot. But I'm simply telling you what is in the flight manuals for F-16s when it comes to most fuel efficient climb profiles. I quoted directly from a block 25 manual. Take that for what you will.

Raptorman-
Thats great, i'm just relaying what I have been told. When I fly, I don't pull out my flight manual in the climb and try to figure out what the best indicated airspeed is until I can transition to a mach number. Its just not gonna save that much gas and besides that you have better things to do like flying the airplane. (even with the autopilot on). This is all academic of course, but the next time I want to make the most fuel efficient climb to altitude in a block 25 viper I will plug your numbers in.
Thanks

Destro and Raptor,

Thanks for all the information. It was what I was looking for. I realize those numbers aren't used all that often and, like Destsro, when I fly I don't worry all that much about saving a gallon of gas on the way up.

You've both been very helpful.

Raptor_One wrote:

We're talking about most efficient climb to an altitude. This has nothing to do with whether KCAS is specified in terms of navigation to/from a waypoint. If you want to make the most efficient climb to the altitude specified by your flight plan, you use the type of info I quoted from a Block 25 -1 manual. The numbers are not the same for all blocks, but they are pretty close. This stuff is all in the flight manuals that pilots are required to be current on. If they open theirs up and look at the climb performance section they will find exactly the type of numbers I listed. I assure you of that. Whether those climb profiles are regularly used or not, I have no clue. I'm no pilot. But I'm simply telling you what is in the flight manuals for F-16s when it comes to most fuel efficient climb profiles. I quoted directly from a block 25 manual. Take that for what you will.

In one of your previous message you used IAS, I know the difference between CAS and IAS is small but the datas in IAS in reality were they in CAS? Did you get from the F-16 C BLK25 and they were in CAS?

Thanks

Last edited by Meteor on Apr 05, 2012 - 09:07 PM; edited 1 time in total

It's been a long time since I last flew the '16, so I don't know what the latest software includes. However, I flew all USAF blocks between 5 and 42, and all had a selectable "HOME" mode. We would select the desired destination waypoint on the FCNP, mode select HOME, and would be presented with carets on the HUD for optimum altitude and speeds. This would give you the optimum fuel conservation profile to arrive at (if I recall correctly) 5000' AGL over the desired waypoint, presumably the place you wanted to land. The profile called for a MIL power climb at the airspeed indicated on the HUD, cruise at the indicated altitudes and airspeeds, and then an idle descent to the point above the airfield. In regards to this thread, the power setting was MIL, and that was the most fuel efficient climb.

I had to "no kidding" use this mode one time after hanging around too long after my wingman ejected, arriving back on the runway with 400 lbs of fuel. It works!

(Edited to correct "block 3" to "block 5". Fat fingers. Sorry, sim guy!)

Block 3?

Meteor wrote:

It's been a long time since I last flew the '16, so I don't know what the latest software includes. However, I flew all USAF blocks between 5 and 42, and all had a selectable "HOME" mode. We would select the desired destination waypoint on the FCNP, mode select HOME, and would be presented with carets on the HUD for optimum altitude and speeds. This would give you the optimum fuel conservation profile to arrive at (if I recall correctly) 5000' AGL over the desired waypoint, presumably the place you wanted to land. The profile called for a MIL power climb at the airspeed indicated on the HUD, cruise at the indicated altitudes and airspeeds, and then an idle descent to the point above the airfield. In regards to this thread, the power setting was MIL, and that was the most fuel efficient climb.

I had to "no kidding" use this mode one time after hanging around too long after my wingman ejected, arriving back on the runway with 400 lbs of fuel. It works!

(Edited to correct "block 3" to "block 5". Fat fingers. Sorry, sim guy!)

all right, I will give a try.

Thanks Shocked

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Climb performance