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Elite Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 2890 Status: Offline

Guys,

I was chatting with the F-35 PR guys at the Miramar Air Show about the JSF when one of them told me that the RAM coatings on the jet were going to be thick enough to conceal the panel lines for access panels as part of the low RCS of the jet. The solution for the maintainers is supposed to be a system of lasers which are placed on the ground (not sure if they're anchored and the jet is positioned relative to them or if they're placed relative to the jet) and are supposed to project an image of the outline of the panel line onto the jet. The crewdawgs are then supposed to CUT THROUGH THE RAM to access the panels and maintain the jet Shocked

!!!

Now, I assure you that I ain't makin' this up - it's too FUBAR'd for that Wink

. I brought up the question about the US Marines flying their JSF's outta soccer fields and the like in a war and the problems this might pose, but the guys just kinda blew that idea off.

My questions are these:

Has anyone else heard of this Rube Goldberg idea?

Is this for real?

Does this sound feasible?

Wouldn't this cause problems from having to reapply RAM after each time a panel is opened???

Thanks in advance Very Happy

!

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Elite Joined: Jan 14, 2004 Posts: 2453 Status: Offline

Shortly before I left LM, I was actually offered a job putting panel sealant on the Raptors. Now, without giving too much away, like the F-117 and the B-2, the jet itself is constructed out of a type of RAM, and there is also a radar absorbant paint. The panel sealant streamlines the panels, and prevents the radar emissions from locking onto a gap in the panels.

Yes, the sealant does have to be periodically reapplied, following maitenance. No biggie. It's somewhat like caulking your house from what I understand.

Lasers? Confused

Hmmm...that's spooky stuff, and I'd rather not go there. If someone else wants to jump in there, go right ahead if you have the "all clear".

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

There are two types of maintenance panels, daily access and infrequent access (maybe once or twice a year). Daily access panels cover things like avionics and engine bays and have conductive seals and fasteners. They do not require cutting nor butter application. Infrequent access panels are buttered and require the butter to be cut away for panel removal.

Elite Joined: May 11, 2004 Posts: 2890 Status: Offline

djcross,

Thanks for that non-classified info Very Happy

! Makes a lot more sense now! Here I was picturing some poor grunt out in the middle of nowhere (or on a flightline in some faraway land) trying to use this jury-rigged laser system to determine what part of the jet to cut so he could do the normal maintenance Laughing

!

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2832

Just as long as you are happy with the panels/access that happens to be on the infrequent list.

Cool. Another consumable to add to your deployment kit. Smile

And....

yet another crew chief task. Very Happy

( WOW... add this to the list of aircraft maintenance tasks I could do without burning the plane to the ground... ( I can place and pull chalks without supervision ...
".... finally, Amn ELP showed great talent in panel caulking.... a recognized go-to person on the task within the shop... the singularly distinctive accomplishments... reflect great credit upon himself and the United States Air Force...."

(it's what you don't say in EPRs and Awards and decks.... All of us have had at least one person in the shop that you could only trust them to do one thing without destroying something... ) Laughing

I had one guy on our shop that I couldn't trust to do anything without boinking the whole singular event he was asked to do. This guy couldn't even remove a ventral without breaking something. So we had him "help" someone different each day. The guy eventually screwed up bad enough for the air force to select him for early involuntary separation.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2832

Yeah I'm just having fun. Anyway, be interesting to see how the crew chiefs ( especially ones with tons of experience ).. respond to the JSF when it gets fielded. I am sure there will be a bunch of things on it that will be great and well thought out and the usual suprises associated with any new aircraft type. I do hope they have it all figured out where all the stealth care and feeding things are easy.

Elite Joined: Jun 29, 2004 Posts: 961 Status: Offline

Maintenance is a top priority for the JSF so I have to assume that while something will certainly be goobered up, most of the actions of the jets will be well though out and pretty well optimized.

While reading the Janes Book of Aircraft 2005/2006, they make mention that the F-35's coatings cost one-tenth that of the F-22 to maintain! That some panels where RAM can't be used on the F-35, mesh wires are placed between layers of composit and a voltage is applied to defeat attempts at detection.
The other thing that was stated with that in panel openings with the fuselage, along the edges wires are embedded that are also electrically charged. This prevents the gap in between from acting like a 'corner reflector.'

While the deep dark secrets are kept, many thing about stealth are open secrets! The KGB had given the Soviet AF command structure the specs on the F-117 a couple years before the information was releast to the public. The Soviets chose not to believe it until PGW#1.

REMEMBER, Tom Clancy's book, "Red Storm Rising" had a stealthy aircraft made by Lockeed called the F-19 Frisbee!! The book was released around 1986 which means he probably started writing around 1984! If Clancy knew about it, you know the KGB did also. Now what we don't know is did the USA engage in some sort mis-information program?

In the last several years, "Janes Book of Combat Aircraft" (annual edition) has had a lot about the stealth aircraft.

Adrian

Elite Joined: Jul 30, 2005 Posts: 739 Status: Offline

the old "frisbees" against the radar planes was a great read. Off topic, what is the russian awacs? Mainstay?

akruse21 wrote:

the old "frisbees" against the radar planes was a great read. Off topic, what is the russian awacs? Mainstay?

I think for the book it was the Mainstay not the Moss even though the was the only one operational at that time. Oh well, it had a short part in the story! A Frisbee was rigged to can a AAM, of which it used to shoot down the SuAWACS.
It is a great read 'if' you are pro-Western. For the fans of the USSR, Clancy's books came as a rude surprise. To find out US subs had a 10:1 passive sonar detection range advantage over Soviet subs. To find out indeed, the M-1's did have armor the Soviet main tank armament could not penetrate beyond 2,000 meters. Finding out they had been lied to about how effective some of their weapons were/are.

Adrian

Elite Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 1082 Status: Offline

Would it not just be easier to just A) Paint the panel lines on, or B) use simple tick marks in various locations to be able to line up a ruler or chalk line from point to point to find the panel lines. Seems a lot easier than an entire laser system....but I'm just a dumb ol' country boy, whad' do I know.

[quote="AfterburnerDecalsScott"]Would it not just be easier to just A) Paint the panel lines on, or B) use simple tick marks in various locations to be able to line up a ruler or chalk line from point to point to find the panel lines. Seems a lot easier than an entire laser system....but I

That sounds like a great idea! Maybe you can get the AF to approve it? Of course, I've known a couple of corrosion guys that could screw up a wet dream (I think it had to do with all of the paint fumes!!! And, not that some of the Crew Chiefs, Avionics, Engines, etc I have known are any better...), so this might not be too good of an idea after all... The theory is great, though! Of course, the AF will probably go with whatever is hardest, most time consuming, and makes the least sense, no matter what else is fielded as an idea for it...

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RAM coating to conceal panel lines?