F-16.net

Newbie Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

Hi all,

I have some tough specs on the F-16 that I need. If anyone can answer these questions, or point me in the right direction, please post here or send me an email. Thanks in advance. (PS. please excuse my ignorance in some of these questions. Some of them may be obvious, but I don't know them!)

Max Landing Weight?
Speed brakes?
RVSM approved?
Weather radar?
TCAS?
ADS?
CPDLC?
Minimum runway requirements? (surface condition?)
Take off distance?
Landing distance?

Climbing speeds (min, max and normal)
Cruise speeds (min, max and normal)
Descent speeds (min, max and normal)
Turbulance penetration speed?

Rate of climb (normal and max)
Rate of descent (normal and max)

F-16.net Sponsor

This message from our sponsor will disappear if you log on as a member.

Okay...

Landing Weight: Don't know, don't care. I don't like landing heavyweight. I prefer to get below about 30,000# first.

Speed Brakes: One set on each side of the nozzle. They open to 60 degrees but have a switch that when the gear is down they will springload down to 43 degrees to preclude ground strike. You can hold the swith open with gear down and they will open, but if you release the switch they close to 43 degrees again.

RVSM: Bad vis is scary. We'll just divert.

Wx Radar: Use the ground map radar in 40 or 80 mile scope, ElStrobe centered, snowplow selected. That's your weather radar.

TCAS: APG-68 AI radar.

ADS: I don't know what that is.

CPDLC: Not necesarry. We don't like talking to controllers anyway, so giving them a permanent link to our cockpit would suck.

Min Runway requirements: There are regs but 7,000 feet is getting pretty short, and RCR of less that 10 is scary. 150 feet wide is good, and cables are a huge plus.

T/O distance: Depends on weight and if you use AB. Between 2,000 and 4,000 feet.

Landing distance: Depends on weight and RCR. Between 3,000 feet and 10,000 feet.

Climb speeds: I like 350KCAS. If I'm in a hurry to climb, 450 to .85 and then .85 is a good profile.

Cruise speeds: 250 for holding, 300 for ho-hum RTB, 350 for admin, .85 for marshalling, 1.00+ for commit, 1.2 just 'cause.

Descent speeds: Why am I descending? Tactically, I'll descend at 1.00+. Instruments, we'll penetrate between 250 and 300.

Turbulance Penetration: No turbulance will overG this jet. I might slow it down to 300 for comfort though. Weather sucks, I'll just go over it or around it.

Rate of climb: VVI stops at 6,000. I'd guess in excess of 10,000FPM for normal takeoff climb.

Rate of descent: Pilot selectable. We'll fly a heavy profile for instruments, but I've gone from the 30s to below 10k in less than a minute for a controller who wanted me to expedite my descent (VMC).

Newbie Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

Thanks very much STBYGAIN! That is fantastic information. Just what I needed! Much appreciated.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2848

Fun reading STBYGAIN.

This forum is magic! Very Happy

"Ask and thou shall be answered!" Laughing

Dang, I figured that answer by STBYGAIN would make this possibly the shortest thread ever! Wink

ROFLOL

Yep, you knew this was coming ELP! Laughing

GASP! I think STANDBY was amidst a whiskey front during his reply, and I resemble that remark!

So from OBI-GUMS Kenobe, more lore for Phil-breath (BTW, great to have ya onboard, man)

Landing Weight: STBY used to newer, better and HEAVIER Vipers. Hell, ones I flew were 22,000 lb at takeoff unless we had eggs. Oh sure, put two big tanks on and add 6 or more MK-82's and we got up above 30,000 lb. Biggest prob with landing above 25000 lb is brake energy, Phil. Doggone carbon fiber brake disks got so hot that the tires would go flat taxiing back when the heat plugs melted!

RVSM: "Bad vis is scary. We'll just divert." Good grief! Are they teaching you guys how to fly instruments? I figured 300 and one was OK, 200 and a half a good proficiency check and 100 and a quarter was downright exciting.

Wx Radar: "Use the ground map radar in 40 or 80 mile scope, ElStrobe centered, snowplow selected. That's your weather radar." Pretty much the drill. We also used the SEA mode ( some kinda clutter doofer that seemed to help)

TCAS: APG-68 AI radar.

ADS: "I don't know what that is." Ditto

CPDLC: "Not necesarry. We don't like talking to controllers anyway, so giving them a permanent link to our cockpit would suck." STBY has it right. "When I shake the stick, tower, you got it"

Min Runway requirements: "There are regs but 7,000 feet is getting pretty short, and RCR of less that 10 is scary. 150 feet wide is good, and cables are a huge plus." Man, these young sprogs are being seduced by the trash hauling community. 150 feet wide! Sheesh. OTOH, 7000 ft is great for TO and landing unless you weigh 30000 pounds and have an RCR less than 10. The Norwgians have drag chutes, so they're prolly more comfortable then the USAF pukes.

T/O distance: Depends on weight and if you use AB. Between 2,000 and 4,000 feet.

Landing distance: "Depends on weight and RCR. Between 3,000 feet and 10,000 feet." Well, if you don't mind heating up the brake disks, you can come to a stop in 5000 feet even if heavy. 'course you'll have flat tires when you get to your parking spot.

Climb speeds: "I like 350KCAS. If I'm in a hurry to climb, 450 to .85 and then .85 is a good profile." There is a 'dip' in the drag curve around 0.85M, so what STBY says is good poop. 0.9M might be better above 25K, but whatthehell.

Cruise speeds: (250 for holding, 300 for ho-hum RTB, 350 for admin, .85 for marshalling, 1.00+ for commit, 1.2 just 'cause." HEh heh, luv it. Actually, Phil, there's a 'bug' you can use in the HUD to provide optimum speed for all of the above. But fighter pukes like to do it 'their' way.

Descent speeds: "Why am I descending? Tactically, I'll descend at 1.00+. Instruments, we'll penetrate between 250 and 300." man, these yutes like to zoom, don't they? Dunno above coming down supersonic, but 300 knots or a bit faster is a good descent speed, especially in weather. Seems that at 325 KIAS or so that the impact pressure on leading edge of wing keeps ice from forming. The stagnation temp makes it so.

Turbulance Penetration: "No turbulance will overG this jet. I might slow it down to 300 for comfort though. Weather sucks, I'll just go over it or around it." Oh man. Well, nobody likes to bore thru a thunderstorm. Especially when the lightning strikes make all the FLCS warning lights come on at one time, heh heh.

Rate of climb: "VVI stops at 6,000. I'd guess in excess of 10,000FPM for normal takeoff climb." Hell, sucker climbed at 20,000 FPM easy in AB, and 5000-7000 fpm or better with a decent load and in mil power. Weight plays a role, but drag is a bigger player when loaded down in the A-G config.

Rate of descent: "Pilot selectable. We'll fly a heavy profile for instruments, but I've gone from the 30s to below 10k in less than a minute for a controller who wanted me to expedite my descent (VMC)." Biggest problem coming down really fast is keeping the travel pod from ripping off. In tactical configuration, it's 'dial a descent' rate.

Oh well, guess Phil-breath has enuf to chew on for awhile. Maybe Cylon will chime in here......

out

Not that it really compares but my brother flies commercial 767s and he has pegged the VVI at 6000 on climbouts after takeoff. If a Viper can't beat that... Rolling Eyes

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2848

Good stuff.

"OBI-GUMS Kenobe"

Good handle.

Very Happy

"You young whipper-snappers... why in my day... we had an old Singer INS and we were happy to be off by a mile or more for every hour of flight. You young kids don't know how good you got it." ....... Very Happy

Newbie Joined: Jan 18, 2004 Posts: 3 Status: Offline

Thanks Gums, the more info the better!!!

If either of you don't mind, I have a couple more questions. An estimate is all that is needed in these cases so please feel free to pluck numbers out of the air! Smile

When ferrying (or doing anything non-tactical) what speeds can be expected from an F-16 (from an ATC planning point of view) at:

50 miles
30 miles
20 miles
10 miles

Also, what sort of TIME and DISTANCE to "Top of Climb" in general.

And, what sort of TIME and DISTANCE from "Top of Descent" to landing when inbound to an airport.

Thanks in advance again!

PS. Also guys can you please give me a name/rank/unit if possible. I won't hold you to it, just need to put some sort of name to it so that they know I didn't make it up at least! Feel free to make one up if you like!!!

We usually RTB at 300KCAS. Stay at 300 from the airspace to initial, and then down to about 250 after the break. Fly around 200 with gear for the final turn. Land at whatever airspeed gives me 11 degrees AOA, usually between 160 and 175. 300 is the magic number for ATC.

In the US, I've been asked more than once to reduce speed for sequencing. I'll default to 250. If they want slower, I'll drop the gear and give them about 210. Holding airspeed is 250. For a high-altitude penetration, I'll usually fly it at 300 unless it is short or very unfamiliar and then I might do it at 250 to give myself more time. For a radar pattern, we'll fly at 250.

Time to climb depends on how high you are going. We usually go to the airspace in the upper-teens, and it probably takes about 5 minutes and 35 miles to get there. If I didn't care about gas and was lightweight, I could get to above 30,000 feet in less that one minute inside of 10 miles.

For descent it really depends, but a rough rule-of-thumb I use is double my altitude for a 7 degree idle descent. So if I am at 25,000 feet I'll start down at about 50 miles. Usually it's just vectors though.

You'll find that for instrument work our profiles probably aren't much different than a heavy.

Elp, I like the "Obi-Gums Kenobe" nickname. Does it mean we are Padawans? Very Happy

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2848

No. Padawan would assume that I could be an F-16 driver. No can do. May be the next lifetime. Cool

I do think an Obi wan saying applies to me though:

"The power of the force, has a strong influence over the weak minded." Very Happy

STBY has super rules of thumb.

Another thing that the HUD-equipped folks do is use altitude and distance AND flight path marker.

So if 100 miles out, 3 to 3 1/2 degrees works just dandy. Can adjust throttle if speed is a factor, othewise you'll hit initial perfectly every time.

Hell, if you REALLY want to be cosmic, you can set the altitude your IFR holding point ( e.g. 20,000 feet) and have this neat target designator box in the HUD to put your FPM upon.

Dunno current range where the TD box appears, but in old days it was limited by curvature of the Earth. The GD sfwe geeks thot it would confuse we dumb jocks if the TD box was below the visible horizon. GASP! Like we would actually try to fly below the Earth to reach Vegas from Hill. Sheesh.

The A-7D had even more cool tricks due to it's projected map display. we could enter a waypoint without typing just by slewing the sucker to where we wanted to go, hit the 'enter' button on the FCNP and turn thumbwheel to the number. Very spiffy.

Short war story:

We used the map for SAR missions quite a bit. We could use a common waypoint and have all interested folks select it on their map. That way we could brief the other guys on the objective's location, threats, egress routes, etc while they were still a hundred miles away. Could also use it to find a way outta Dodge when the plan went to hell!

For new guy: 16 TFTS, 34 TFS, 421 TFS all at Hill AFB from 1979-1984. Old fart then, older today. See last page or so of the T-bird crash and look at the pic (it's coming off the post in another few days to help the janitors reduce file space).

out,

F-16.net

Forum: General

Hard specs about the F-16