Forum: Technology

One thing about the cost of these components that everybody keeps talking about is the politicians getting a company in their district to build a certain part etc. etc. So.....

I've always struggled with this question: Where do the loyalties of that politician (Congressman) lie? He was elected by the people of his district/state to do his best for them, so where does he draw the line between what's best for his constituents and what's best for the country as a whole? His job description seems to be the former, but it's hard for me to stomach that.... I just don't know. Sorry for taking this a little off-topic, but the beginning of my post was relevant! Very Happy

F-16.net Sponsor

2sBlind,

You bring up an important point. Maybe we're being too US centric in this thread as this is an international forum, but I think it's still relavent. After all, the multinational efforts all seem to have the same problem in a different way - the politicians from each country try to get as much $$$ for their nation as they can while the system in question has to serve the group as a whole.

I just keep thinking that bringing the taxpayers the best product for their dollar (no matter where on Earth they are) should be the overriding concern when tax dollars are being spent. If a state or country wants more business, let them offer tax breaks (reduce the cost of doing business) or other incentives - don't just let the manufacturing jobs go to where the most powerful official is.

parrothead wrote:

Ya know, I keep seeing references to insurance...

Insurance is needed because of lawyers...

Draw your conclusions Wink

.

Politicians - look at where the word comes from - politics - which can be broken down into its source components - poly = many & ticks = blood sucking parasites Very Happy

!

Get rid of both of 'em in the process and let the military and free enterprise work it out Thumb

!

Both buildings are usually large fixed targets. Laughing

I'll let fragging pros figure out how best to go about it. Very Happy

C'MON YOU YUTES!!!!

STOP IT!!
STOP IT!!

The guy in Korea prolly got disoriented and pranged. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

The clever lawyer apparently talked with enuf maintenance troops to find out that we had a few cases of "chafing". OK. Maybe this troop had a short circuit that did something to his a) HUD, b) ADI, c) turn needle d) STBY attitude indicator (28 v DC right from the battery), etc. But I have been there when losing my orientation, and not for a few thousand feet I woulda punched out (this in a Viper whilst looking over my shoulder at the "bandit" and descending into a cloud bank ahead of me ). So I shall stand by my original post - the guy screwed up and died.

I was asked to be a technical "expert" on a similar case a few months after I retired. I found a small discrepancy in the altimeter. Nonetheless, the guy hit the water because he wasn't paying attention to his altitude (even if the thing was off by 75 or 80 feet). Additionally, the Viper still didn't have a radar altimeter, as we SLUF pilots had demanded from day one. We were waiting for USAF to buy the damned CARA, which they had screwed up for years (see previous diatribe). And oh BTW, xxxxx and this other troop would likely have pulled up if they had had a radar altimeter set for 500 feet when flying at night or in bad weather.

First fatality in the Viper in USAF was not pilot error. First overall fatality was a Dutch or Belgian, if I am not mistaken. And I think it may have been a LEF mal, but we weren't sure. Jay Moats died when he ejected after pulling 22 negative gees following FLCS shutdown. His chute started to open , but he didn't make it.

Next one was xxxxxx (see above comment), and it was pure pilot error, as were the next 4 or 5 at Hill. The spiffy VCR we had and the GD flight data recorders told the story for all of them.
***************

I served with the contractors, and I never saw a single one that soft-shoed their product with respect to safety.

I saw some out and out lack of design considerations (read "not familiar with all the stupid things fighter pilots can think of"). So I took great pride representing the pilots in my company's designs and tests. I was oft criticized for "identifying" too much with the "users". So be it, but we got contract after contract once we had met with the"users".
*****************

The reason the jets cost more than they should is the U.S. government.

That's my story, and I am sticking to it.

BTW, Have a Merry Christmas.

Gums,

Sorry for any ruffled feathers there. I just hate seeing the lawyers and politicians get rich on these. Mostly the politicians...

And a Merry Christmas to you, too Very Happy

!

Thanks for your comments GUMS. One thing though... A radar altimeter is typically mounted under the fuselage somewhere, unless it is part of the main radar, but I'm not familiar with those. While inverted it has no value as it is pointing skywards and would think there was unlimited amount of space between Viper and ground, hence would not have helped.

Good points for the newbies,

Most radar amtimeters have a pitch and roll limit. SLUF was at least 30 degrees.

Both Viper ground/water impacts I referenced were at most 5 degrees pitch and 20-30 degrees roll, if that much.

One was the end of a letdown to the range for a radar pass. Black, night, over desert with no ground lights, etc. Aircraft impacted 6 or 7 miles along the run-in line at the exact spot that he would have if he was 10,000 feet higher. Hmmmmmm..... He is fooling with the radar when the tape goes bbbbBBBBBzzzzzzTTT.

Other was daylight over the lake with calm water that looked like a mirror. I crossed lake within 5 minutes of impact and it was very disorienting. Aircraft hit water at maybe 3 or 4 degree angle and 15 degrees of bank or so. Autopilot altitude hold in the Viper will not hold altitude beyond a certain AoA. Jet was heavy after just taking off and autopilot gradually let him down until impact.

The old-fashioned radar altimeters we had would have been very nice, especially that bright red light we could set for any altitude below 5,000. But Noooooo....., we had to wait for the CARA and all the machinations in the procurement cycle I mentioned. And meanwhile we lose two pilots. The radar altimeter is also useful for providing elevation data to the FCS for bombing when the terrain is favorable- like over desert or ocean.

out,

One thing that makes American aircraft so expensive is the inability to plan on consistent funds. One great example if the F-22.

The F-22 was on track to become operational in clinton's first term as president (the lack of capital letters is my sign of respect!). The Cold War ended and almost eighteen months was taken to figure out all the ways to downgrade the F-22 to make it less expensive! Some specs were changed but, the concept to make it less expensive was to draw out the time of developement, that way the annual expense would be less.

The politicians (prostitutes) complicated the process by making the funding so erratic that the expense is driven up by that factor. Liberal politicians further hurt the effort by cutting the funds and dragging out the time period of developement. So instead of the F-22 becomming operational by 1996, nine years later and hundreds of millions of dollars later the F-22 finally became operational in late 2005.

American aircraft are further hurt by advancing the "state of art" in so many design features. In the case of the F-14A, F-15A it was the avionics, the aerodynamics, the engines, etc..... all of these items of these two aircraft were a quantum jump over any previous aircraft.

The same is true for the F-22A, it is a quantum improvement in three separate technologies over any previous weapon system, plus the brand new developement of stealth in a fighter aircraft. We all know what a money "sink hole" stealth is.

Adrian

I think the Russians will argue the point of US lead in aerodynamics...

On the politician bashing I would suggest that we all stay neutral, as there is plenty of blame to spread in all directions...

Merry Christmas (happy holiday for those who don't)

Forum: Technology

Why are fighter aircraft so expensive?