AF JSF Cancellation

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by LWF » 19 Nov 2005, 00:24

There are rumors about that the Air Force version of the JSF is being cancelled by the Pentagon. The source for this information comes from the Nov. 18 issue of the Wall Street Journal.
It takes a fighter with a gun to kill a MiG-21!


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by Scorpion1alpha » 19 Nov 2005, 00:30

Nothing concrete. This one is a wait and see type thing (if any action at all is taken).
I'm watching...


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by Destro » 19 Nov 2005, 01:24

Even if it does get cancelled, it may come back to life for the USAF later. Look at the Bone, Peanut man cancelled and Ronny Ray-gun brought it back.
:thumb:


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by boff180 » 19 Nov 2005, 10:32

Well here is the full story...

By Jim Wolf
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon is seeking to cancel the Air Force
version of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-35, the world's biggest fighter
program, a leading defence consultant said Friday.
Gordon England, acting deputy secretary of defence, "is pushing to eliminate
one of the three aircraft versions, and the Air Force version is his
preferred kill" as a short-term economy measure, said Loren Thompson, citing
discussions with senior Pentagon and industry officials.
Thompson is chief operating officer of the Arlington, Virginia-based
Lexington Institute, a research group with close ties to the defence
establishment.
Loss of the Air Force variant would be a blow to Lockheed which expects to
export that version, in particular, for decades to come.
Eight countries have joined the United States to co-develop the F-35, also
known as the Joint Strike Fighter. With a projected total program cost of
more than $250 billion, it involves what would be the Pentagon's most
expensive acquisition to date and a symbol of international cooperation.
The co-development partners are Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey,
Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway.
If cut, the likely beneficiaries would be France's Rafale fighter, built by
Dassault Aviation; Eurofighter, a product of Finmeccanica, BAE Systems and
EADS; plus Gripen, built by Saab and BAE Systems.
The radar-evading F-35 was designed to serve the U.S. Air Force with a
standard model; the Navy, with a sturdier one for aircraft-carrier landings;
and the Marines, with a short take off and landing "jump jet"-style variant.
England wants the Air Force to buy the Navy version instead of getting its
own, said Thompson.
In an October 19 memorandum, England ordered military leaders to find $32
billion in cuts over the next five years and said they might have to dig
even deeper as President Bush's fiscal 2007 budget proposal takes shape.
No final decisions would be made until a high-level meeting on Monday,
England wrote at the time. The White House is due to send its final budget
goals to this session.
Navy Capt. Kevin Wensing, a spokesman for England, declined to comment on
belt-tightening measures under study in the so-called Quadrennial Defence
Review, a strategy analysis done every four years and due to go to Congress
in coming months.
A knowledgeable Pentagon official noted that England, as secretary of the
Navy, had integrated the Navy and Marine Corps aviation programs starting in
2002. Consolidating a number of air wings, he has been credited with saving
"billions of dollars," said this official who asked not to be named.
Lockheed Martin has not been notified of any changes to its programs, said
John Smith, a spokesman in Fort Worth, where the fighters are being
assembled.
Apart from Britain, which plans to buy the vertical-takeoff variant, all
international partners plan to buy the Air Force model, said Richard
Aboulafia of Teal Group, a Fairfax, Virginia, aerospace consultancy.
Aboulafia said a decision to scrap the Air Force version would save a
"couple billion" in development costs but eat into U.S. dominance of
fighter-export markets for years to come.
Christopher Bolckom, top warplane expert with the nonpartisan Congressional
Research Service, said he expected any push to kill the Air Force version to
meet resistance in Congress and among co-development partners.
Andy Evans Aviation Photography
www.evansaviography.co.uk


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by TenguNoHi » 19 Nov 2005, 10:42

I bet Elp is dancing circles right now.

I could be wrong but isnt the Navy version more expensive because of the added modifications for carrier landings? And if thats true then considering most R&D is done wouldnt that cost more money in the long run?

Whatever, I dont care but if they give us the navy version they better let us land on carriers for @#$@ and giggles; and to get that stupid notion out of everyones head that navy pilots are better.

-Aaron


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by bring_it_on1 » 19 Nov 2005, 12:39

The navy version was and is the least developed...However cancelling it would leave the navy searching again for another strike fighter..


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by TenguNoHi » 19 Nov 2005, 13:15

I think the intention of the article is to convey that the AF would have to start buying the Navy version; not the cancellation of the whole project.

If the Navy version is the least developed though; well, how hard would it be for the AF to make its own upgrades and modifications to the avionics, load out, etc... on newer blocks down the line in the future?

-Aaron


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by snypa777 » 19 Nov 2005, 14:22

As long as the navy version has all the capabilities the airforce wants, it`s not a big deal I think. If your going to cancel an air force only version, it may be a smart thing to do financially. Obviously, the navy can`t use the air force version. :lol:

I mean, other than bigger wings and stronger landing gear, which are not a problem in themselves (correct me if I am wrong please), would the airforce have any complaints about having the navy spec` JSF.

Hey ELP, SOMEBODY was listening to ya! :P
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by swanee » 19 Nov 2005, 16:22

But the Navy version isn't going to have an internal gun. The plan for them is to use a pod... I am pretty sure the Air Force doesn't want to make that mistake again...
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by TenguNoHi » 19 Nov 2005, 18:07

Why can they compromise on the design? What inside the Navy version is preventing the gun and why cant they get rid of it? The problem with gunpods is theyll compromise the stealth of the airplane. Meaning; the only role they serve stealthy and effectivly is bombers; meaning the only ones running air superiority out there are Raptors; IMO. Sounds kinda dumb to me :( Why cant the govt just give us an unlimited budget? :(

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by bring_it_on1 » 19 Nov 2005, 19:55

But the Navy version isn't going to have an internal gun. The plan for them is to use a pod...


Wasnt the missionized gun for the B varient rather then the C varient.


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by Scorpion1alpha » 19 Nov 2005, 20:46

bring_it_on1 wrote:
But the Navy version isn't going to have an internal gun. The plan for them is to use a pod...


Wasnt the missionized gun for the B varient rather then the C varient.


The F-35C CV model was never to have an internal gun. Just like the F-35B STOVL model, if you want a gun on it, it will have to be attatched with a missionized stealthy gun pod placed centerline in between the weapon bays.

The F-35A CTOL is the only version to have a dedicated internal 25MM gun system. The USAF demanded it has it, THEIR required version (and of course, a correct requirement as a lession learned from Vietnam).

IF (and thats a big IF) the U.S. Air Force is forced with the ridiculous notion to abandon their own optimized version and forced to purchase the navy's F-35C, you can bet the USAF will try to modify it as much as possible to bring it as close to specs as the F-35A CTOL as the C model is inferior to the A in most performance specs except range.
I'm watching...


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by Velvet » 19 Nov 2005, 21:17

The next question is will the AF version of the F-35C have a 7.5G limit (like the Navy's) or will they get the 9G aircraft they fought for?


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by snypa777 » 19 Nov 2005, 21:32

SCORPION1ALPHA wrote..
"IF (and thats a big IF) the U.S. Air Force is forced with the ridiculous notion to abandon their own optimized version and forced to purchase the navy's F-35C, you can bet the USAF will try to modify it as much as possible to bring it as close to specs as the F-35A CTOL as the C model is inferior to the A in most performance specs except range.
"

The USAF may have NO choice but to take the navalised version if the bean-counters in Washington have their way. Other air force programs might depend on it......hmmmm, how about the possibility of starting with the naval C variant then doing some smaller scale manufacturing to get it closer to the spec the airforce wants? Would that be viable financially I wonder? It`s got to be cheaper than building a separate version per se.
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by johnqhitman » 19 Nov 2005, 23:28

I wouldn't be surprised that JSF gets axed. It seems there is a lot of waste in the R&D Phase. JSF shouldn't have tried to make another step ahead, merely bring an aircraft with common components into all three services. That is my two cents.

It seems whenever a military project gets approval the military gets like a kid at christmas time.


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