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Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1089 Status: Offline

I'm not sure why you are so down on DDX. You can't build Burkes forever and you're constrained but the Mk41 cell size anyway to what you can do with it.

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LWF wrote:

There are rumors about that the Air Force version of the JSF is being cancelled by the Pentagon. The source for this information comes from the Nov. 18 issue of the Wall Street Journal.

AF cancelation = marine corps and international cancelation cause that would make the jsf cost... What lets say close to half a billion a piece.

This may be of some significance aswell...

Quote:

TAR Waiver Defence Committee Comment

The Defence Committee has noted with concern media reports that negotiations with the US to win an ITAR Waiver for the UK have failed.

According to the Financial Times, US Administration officials have concluded that political opposition on Capitol Hill to granting the UK a waiver from the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is insurmountable.

The ITAR create a bureaucratic barrier to the export of unclassified defence equipment and technology.

The Committee regards that flow of equipment and technology as crucial to US-UK defence cooperation. Failure to achieve an ITAR waiver for the UK threatens the future of a number of joint procurement projects and has implications for UK defence policy and the UK defence industrial base.

The Committee have pursued this issue for several years and warned in a recent report that if the waiver was not secured there was a “a real risk that the close relationship between the UK and the US could be harmed”. Commenting on the report, Committee Chairman, Rt Hon James Arbuthnot, MP said that “the inability of Congress to find a resolution on this issue will cause serious problems not only for the UK defence industry but also our Service men and women”.

The Committee has asked MoD to comment on the media reports and it will consider taking oral evidence in December if it does not receive assurances that they are not well founded.

The Committee plans to visit Washington in the New Year and will again impress on members of the US Congress the importance of these issues for US-UK relations.

Source: Commons Defence Committee (24th November, 2005)

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2862

sferrin wrote:

I'm not sure why you are so down on DDX. You can't build Burkes forever and you're constrained but the Mk41 cell size anyway to what you can do with it.

Yeah I know. I want the skimmers to be healthy. Just that look at every thing we just got done doing.The new Burkes are supposed to be modern. How much more shipyard-lobby-pork do we have to do? The Burke has NO upgrade path on new weapon systems to be added to it?? Just me. I would rather see USN bite the bullet and start asking for R&D funds to put a long range jet of F-22 ability on the carrier deck. I do think that this would be an expensive airframe. But everything to do with carriers is expensive. It would also really put a bigger stick in the big stick carrier concept. Assuming JSF gets to the carrier deck is all fine. We still need something that has gross no peer long range ability and again I only need a small squadron of this new aircraft type on board the carrier. I would like to see:

x plane
F-18E/F
( JSF? )
X-47 UCAV

as the shooters in the carrier airwing. I would feel more secure on our carrier firepower.

Last edited by The_Mastiff on Nov 24, 2005 - 09:52 PM; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

This may be of some significance aswell...

Boff, as long as your government keeps showing it has enemies out to discredit and embarass the US at it's highest levels do you really think your country will be trusted completely? Get real.

The memo from T. Blair's office about Bush wanting to bomb the Al Jazeera news org. in a friendly country is a typical example. Do you want a few dozen more? Who has been harming the relationship between the countries more than the current labor government, going all the way back to the last US presidential election, and before. Blair obviously doesn't control his own party, not to mention the other whackos in parliment like Galloway that would sell their own mother, and called for Iraqi's to kill british troops, etc., etc. JL Raleigh NC

I notice there is absolutelly NO post on this topic from ELP Wink

Wonder why Rolling Eyes

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1089 Status: Offline

[quote="elp"]

sferrin wrote:

Yeah I know. I want the skimmers to be healthy. Just that look at every thing we just got done doing.The new Burkes are supposed to be modern. How much more shipyard-lobby-pork do we have to do? The Burke has NO upgrade path on new weapon systems to be added to it?? .

Burkes could still get full caliber SAMs and something like HyFly but then you're pretty much tapped out. They don't have the electrical capacity to operate things like solidstate lasers and EM guns. I'd have to agree though that carrier aviation is in the midst of a clusterF.

The_Mastiff wrote:

Quote:

This may be of some significance aswell...

Boff, as long as your government keeps showing it has enemies out to discredit and embarass the US at it's highest levels do you really think your country will be trusted completely? Get real.

Damn that free press! [shakes fist at free press] Always printing compromising memos that should never had been written in the first place (because you know, we're meant to be the good guys here and not thinking about bombing media outlets...)

But seriously, your mixing up political infighting (Labour is a left-wing party pretending to be centralist, what did you expect? Hell, we barely trust them Razz

) generated by taking part in a war that large chunks of the party (let alone the country) disagreed with, with keeping military technology secrets. How often have you heard of a leak of militray secrets coming from the UK? Last leaks I recall hearing was a B-2 Engineer in the states selling secrets and then there was the chinese guys takings US nuclear secrets from a US research establishment. Now how many UK politicians (mostly lawyers) do you think have access to OUR technology let alone yours?

Given how entwined our military (frequent pilot exchanges, cross training, etc) and industry (BAE now have a larger US presence than in the UK and almost all current US aircraft have some sort of UK system aboard - and vice versa for us too!) is becoming you'd think you guys would be over the whole paranoid worry that we're going to invade you via Canada Razz

And yes, I did spell Leak Leek originally. Now I really need some Rabbit and Leek soup. Damn you Rabbit and Leek soup! [Shakes fist at Rabbit and LeeK soup]

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is becoming you'd think you guys would be over the whole paranoid worry that we're going to invade you via Canada

I KNEW IT!!! Mad

270-something years of friendlyness only to invade us when we least expect it, Canadians must be the greatest military minds in history! Smile

When Is the whole descision on the JSF's possible cuts being made?

Sniper69 wrote:

Quote:

is becoming you'd think you guys would be over the whole paranoid worry that we're going to invade you via Canada

I KNEW IT!!! Mad

270-something years of friendlyness only to invade us when we least expect it, Canadians must be the greatest military minds in history! Smile

It has been a careful plan of infiltration by pop acts and maple syrup Razz

Quote:

But seriously, your mixing up political infighting (Labour is a left-wing party pretending to be centralist, what did you expect? Hell, we barely trust them ) generated by taking part in a war that large chunks of the party (let alone the country) disagreed with, with keeping military technology secrets. How often have you heard of a leak of militray secrets coming from the UK? Last leaks I recall hearing was a B-2 Engineer in the states selling secrets and then there was the chinese guys takings US nuclear secrets from a US research establishment. Now how many UK politicians (mostly lawyers) do you think have access to OUR technology let alone yours

Safetystick, gone are the days where your country automaticly gets the keys to the safe. Recall your pilots were flying test flights in the F117 before it was aknowledged officially here in the states. The constant barrage of anti american sentiment, bush bashing, attempting to interfere with our elections, etc. have hurt our relations. Congress has taken note and this is partly what you are seeing.

No, you're not France, but you're not the country you were 5 years ago in our eyes.

In our congress we have plenty of idiots with a habit of leaking secret memos that embarass usually ones in power. That won't stop them from pretending they're honest, upstanding citizens and sending a message to your country for doing the same thing they are guilty of.

Quote:

Now how many UK politicians (mostly lawyers) do you think have access to OUR technology let alone yours?

If I'm not mistaken your parliment has committees with oversight over defense projects just like our congress. They're made up of different party MP's just as ours are. They have access to everything your country is buying, leasing, etc.

Certainly you have been reading your countries media stories and reports over the last few years and seen the amount of deserving, and undeserved US bashing that has been going on? Name calling, insults to the intelligence of voters here etc? Well, we've been reading it too, and clipping it out and faxing or mailing it with comments to congressmen that have oversight on this type thing. I know I have been, and I know a few others doing the same.

Recall the stories of seeing B2's and F117's on radar, typhoons seeing raptors at 80 miles, funny stories of typhoons beating F15E's in 9 second dogfights. All bullshit and designed to embarass the US military.

Enjoy your free press. Very Happy

JL Raleigh NC

The country that changed was not Great Britian.

Quote:

The country that changed was not Great Britian.

Now that's an irrelevancy if I've ever seen one. Were a democracy and doing very well practicing it. If you don't like the US or our policies, good for you. Say whatever the hell you want to about it, as it's your right, and your business. Don't expect to be able to run your mouth to your hearts content without someone noticing,then come back and act as if nothing has happened with your hands open. No one's that simple, are they?

My guess is IF the F35 goes ahead, England and Australia will eventually get what they are asking for. Quid Pro Quo works both ways though, eh?

In the end the largest deciding factor isn't going to be national pride, or some kind of revenge. It's doing business intelligently and in a way that benefits your own country. JL Raleigh NC

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 26, 2005 Posts: 1455 Status: Offline

Fella`s, the issue with JSF is NOT about technology and secrets sharing, your missing the point. The US gave us and continues to support the UKs Trident SSBN program. There are numerous millitary projects concerning tech` sharing between both our country`s.
Remember, the US has offered only one country the F-117...the UK.
With JSF, if the US refuses to tech` share, servicing work and future upgrades goes to US ONLY companies. It keeps the lions share of the work in the US. That is the problem the UK and the Dutch have with JSF. The US is just dressing it up as a "secrets sharing issue" to disguise simple economic protectionism...
It`s just America playing hardball in business.

Quote:

Fella`s, the issue with JSF is NOT about technology and secrets sharing, your missing the point. The US gave us and continues to support the UKs Trident SSBN program. There are numerous millitary projects concerning tech` sharing between both our country`s.
Remember, the US has offered only one country the F-117...the UK.

That was then, this is now. Do you not realize how much all the articles, editorials, election insults and such has pissed off a large portion of the US? Do you really think you would be getting Trident D-5's and offers to buy the F117 now ?

Only on a trade for technology or services that we need basis. Sorry guys, things have changed.How many RAF pilots have been invited over to fly the Raptor so far? Our relations are at the lowest point since the Suez incident.

As I said, I believe it will go through after the proper amount of hoops have been jumped through. JL raleigh NC

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