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After discussing with friends about the F-22 not being to be seen by many who have opposed it, I have wondered about the F-22 and contrails.

In surfing the web I came across this;
Embry-Riddle Aeronautics University Horizons
http://horizons.eraunews.com/vnews/disp ... c8bffb1349

In the section, "DAY 2 of Operation "Blue Ribbon"
To our joy, a pair of F-22 Raptors were dog fighting overhead. We watched as they flew around using the vectored thrust to make incredibly tight turns into each other. They were either using a smoke system to show their flight path, or were using the contrail suppression system we had heard about. Their contrails would turn on and off at precise times, almost as if they would use them to visually acquire each other and then shut them off and commence the fight. All three of us being pilots, we especially enjoyed this free air show.

Adrian

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Contrails are a function of moisture at certain levels of the atmosphere. The likely level of contrails can be forcast enough to avoid those flight levels. The off and on contrails/'smoke generators' reported by the ER 'adventurers' were likely caused by one or more of the aircraft flying through the contrail layer and back into dryer air. You'd think someone from Embry-Riddle would know that. Rolling Eyes

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Contrail generators - that's a good one! About like one of my students at Sheppard who asked where the driveshafts were on the landing gear.....Airman Basic Mulke - It's been 20+ years and I'll never forget that kid. Cracked me up. He also wanted to know why you couldn't put a lawnmower pull starter on a jet engine. I guess you could if you had a long enough rope and could run fast enough.

Elite Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 798 Status: Offline

Salute!

Yep, must be the SECRET contrail-elimination doofer we now have. Be afraid, be very afraid. Now ask about the nukeular weapons, OK?

The Double Uglies would race around in min burner on one motor and low power on the other at Red Flag. That way they didn't "smoke". The Pratt motors in the Eagles and Vipers didn't smoke much, if at all. Later F-4J's that the USMC had didn't smoke, either.

Burner would cut out the cons a lot of the time. Other times you could see the cons as the guys fought rolling scissors in full blower. Beatsthehellouttame.

It all depends.

out,

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

Lead in a steady almost hypnotic voice......

"Raptor flight.... contrails 'on' and.... count..... off....."

"Two"...

"Three..."

"Four...""

"Raptor flight coming back to show center for another AMRAAM volley... looking good team.... and... pull.... pull.. pull..... ease off...... and....roll right....... contrails 'off'.... and........ Break!......

Laughing

Elite Joined: Jun 29, 2004 Posts: 961 Status: Offline

Outstanding Elp! Only one omission...no "Fox" calls with that AMRAAM volley Wink

?

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

Roscoe wrote:

Outstanding Elp! Only one omission...no "Fox" calls with that AMRAAM volley Wink

?

Oh I am sure, but they were just coming around setting up for a shot. Laughing

Contrails only occur between 20K and 60K feet, with some altitude variation due to weather. This information is readily available during the preflight brief. The solution to contrails is to fly above the contrail altitude.

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

djcross wrote:

Contrails only occur between 20K and 60K feet, with some altitude variation due to weather. This information is readily available during the preflight brief. The solution to contrails is to fly above the contrail altitude.

Or use them to your advantage. Have one Raptor make contrails while the others fly above and use the contrail to suck the bad guys in for a pounce. Our ANG A-7 pilots used to get kills on active Viper drivers all the tiime doing something similar. During one time frame there were two paint schemes on the SLUF - Euro Green and a two tone Light/Dark Gray combo. At Red Flag the gray jet would go in low by his lonesome radiating while the green guys orbited high in the sun in standby. The unwary Viper guys would see an easy kill and get an AIM 9 up the tailpipe before they knew what was happening. Very embarrasing for an active Viper driver to get shot down by an ANG SLUF driver.

Just goes to show - experience plays a huge part in the outcome.

Newbie Joined: Nov 10, 2005 Posts: 1 Status: Offline

HI Sir ,
I am a jet fighter pilot in Pakistan Air Force, I am delivering a formal presentation on " F-22 RAPTOR , THE RIGHT FIGHTER FOR FUTURE". For this please help me in preparing the relevent introduction and with the stuff which will provr it the fifth generation fighter.
I will be grateful to u for this kind help

ummm.... sure

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Plenty of public stuff on the internet for a presentation.

Umarfazal, to help your presentation, go buy a couple of plastic model kits of the F/A-22, and the Su30 and MiG-21. Build them, paint them up in appropriate squadron colors.

To demonstrate the F/A-22 superiority,drop the Su-30, and MiG models on the floor, and stomp them to piece's...Tell them,that what would happen if you encounter a Raptor.. Wink

Aiight, I have to say it. I know several F-22 pilots and they all say the same thing. F-22's DO NOT fight each other. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the story is false. As far as "contrails", you are probably thinking of the vapors, we call them "vapes", coming off a "slow" moving aircraft. Not a problem, just a fact.

Elite Joined: May 26, 2005 Posts: 1093

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F-22 and The Contrail Situation