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Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Langley 1st drop (Sorry folks - I have a brand new pic but the system doesn't seem to want to upload it. I'll try again later)

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Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

Finally got the pic to load. Hope everyone enjoys.

Elite Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 922 Status: Offline

The thing is so fat. Looks like a whale from the side or the front.

Neat pic though!

-Aaron

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

A story I read said all but one dropped. ( 1 JDAM didn't pass the health check at release time so it stayed in the bay )

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123012380

It's a great capability and you get to add that nifty "A" to your designation but...

...do you really want your brand new, air domination, 100 million plus per copy aircraft dropping two JDAMs on target?

Wouldn't you be better served using F-117s? On top of that the 15C pilots just train for A2A. Wouldn't it be better if the 22A pilots also just trained for A2A? Now you're taking training time away from their primary mission as an air domination platform so they can learn to move mud...

Person wrote:

It's a great capability and you get to add that nifty "A" to your designation but...

...do you really want your brand new, air domination, 100 million plus per copy aircraft dropping two JDAMs on target?

Wouldn't you be better served using F-117s? On top of that the 15C pilots just train for A2A. Wouldn't it be better if the 22A pilots also just trained for A2A? Now you're taking training time away from their primary mission as an air domination platform so they can learn to move mud...

Ahhh, but you forget one thing: The number one job of the USAF is still to put bombs on the ground on target. Plus, now the DoD can go to congress and say "Look what else we can do with the F/ A-22! Give us the money to buy MORE! And they will. It happened with the F-16 when they wanted to Phase out the A-10 back in the Late 80s, but back then it backfired, the A-16 program never worked.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

Person wrote:

It's a great capability and you get to add that nifty "A" to your designation but...

...do you really want your brand new, air domination, 100 million plus per copy aircraft dropping two JDAMs on target?

Wouldn't you be better served using F-117s?

"Yes" on 1 and "no" on 2. F-117s were exposed in daylight in the opening of OIF. Fine for that enemy, but not good against someone who is more cabable. And don't forget that the thing will be carrying 6-8 SDB internally instead of two JDAM when ever it is needed. SDB being able to kill a high percentage of targets.

F-117 is good for its day but.... it is not multi-mission which means if you deploy a small number of airframes on an exercise/contingency, that airframe can do more. F-117 can't do air domination. More. At super-cruise and with greater height. An F-22 will be releasing those weapons much farther away. That means even more survivability/lack of dectection re: threats like big modern SAMs or modern radar.

It's speed means it will be exposed to those threats over less time in the mission. What it does get into,... it can get out of quicker. It offers real contempt of engagement of air or land threats. Phase I airwar ( where enemy large SAMs, Sensors, and enemy fighters ) are killed off, means that most of these legacy threats, will not be able to stop this aircraft from X-ing out runway intersections, airfield facilities on the ground, prime sensors, or large SAMs that have had their ESM exposed.

A2G weps...... JDAM-32 ( mk 83 with a JDAM kit ) and JDAM-35 ( 1000lb forged pointy tip BLU-110 with a JDAM kit ) { first to say sorry to my munitions friends for using simple terms to explain things Laughing

vs. exact naming of each component Smile

}

It is the one with the BLU-110 that starts to become interesting. More times than not, this weapon will do just as much and certainly "good-enough" damage vs. using a cruise missile that costs 20 -30 times more than an inexpensive JDAM. Most basic concrete buildings will be "managed" well by a BLU-110 depending on what you are trying to do. Certainly all sensors or other exposed com gear would get killed and if not killed...."mission killed". So, BLU-110 isn't so shabby. SDB...the Small Diameter Bomb is just as exciting. With the mild penetration ability of a BLU-109 ( 2000lb forged pointy tip ). It will ( and has in tests ) penetrated some interesting structures and taken out the target. Many target types are just as dead if you hit them within 3-4 meters with a large JDAM as an SDB. So, given that, with an SDB... you are taking along more potential "targets" for the airframe. First night of the war targets that will result in sensors being hit, Large SAMS that expose themselves getting hit, Airfield facilities being hit. Other C3 targets with exposed electric gear... etc. Once a path is cleared. B-2 lets loose with a blizzard of PGMs in a geographic area, to beat down anything of interest.....in an environment that is 24/7 neighborhood watched by space and airbreathing platforms ( some unmanned ) in a net-centric war environment where the killers get all the needed information when a threat exposes itself electronically.

All of this in an aircraft that will be very hard, if not impossible for an enemy armed with legacy gear, to stop. As these defenses get down graded, things only get easier so that you can kill off targets on your own schedule. After a point in time the enemy can only sit there and be killed at your pleasure and has little or no impact on your airplan getting done. Finally, a lot of this Phase I of the war stuff can be done without there being a super large number of stealth airframes. F-22 and B-2 with all the other team members supporting it, is good enough. Where possible X-45 UCAV in a supporting team player SEAD/DEAD role helps even more. Once Phase I is over, legacy airframes can do the rest of the work.

Elite Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 984 Status: Offline

One simple reason why the "A" was added. Ask around and see what most -15C pilots have done during the past few wars. They mostly orbited and bored holes in the sky. Now what did most of the deployed Vipers do? They bombed the crap out of stuff or shot it up. They were down in the weeds working while the Eagle drivers sat up top and watched. The "A" was added so the Raptor guys could get some combat time in the event that the next few wars play out like the last ones have. Plus it's a selling point to Congress - more capability for the buck.

I had the pleasure of talking to one of the Raptor DCC's this evening, and he let me get >relatively< close to the jet. From what he told me, and what I was able to see, I am more behind this jet than ever before (and if anyone has read my ramblings, they know I already support the -22 100%).

FF860261 is right- the Eagle guys have done a bang up job supporting our combat operations, but we (USA) haven't faced a serious A/A threat in years- like since the F-15 was developed. That has left our Eagle pilots training and training and training and training...for a job they may do once in their career.

By giving the -22 an attack capability, you have created a "force multiplier". The raptor can go out and sweep the sky of A/A threats, and once that task is 99% done, they can start loading bombs and continue to make a significant impact in the war effort. In the first gulf war the -15C's were busy with their primary mission- i.e. killing bad guys in A/A combat- for what, a week? Then, they flew in circles, burned gas (and $$, in todays fiscally tight military), and picked off the rare and occaisional MiG with a suicide wish, while the rest of the AF carried on the air war.

Now, don't get me wrong- it is vital to have aircraft dedicated to A/A missions, no matter how unlikely the threat. But, when most of an enemies AF has been wiped out, being able to transition from primarily an A/A role to moving mud (even if on a limited scale) contributes that much more to the war effort.

Elite Joined: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 757 Status: Offline

Thanks falconfixer860261 for posting the pic. The Raptor carrying two 1,000lb JDAMs while still carrying two AMRAAMs, two AIM-9Ms (AIM-9Xs in the near future), and 480 rounds of 20MM ammo in it's gun, all internally is a great capability. When the SDBs is intergrated (eight carried internally in place of the two JDAMs), it'll just get better.

Sure will suck to be the guy on the ground in C&C facilities, SAM and radar sites, and other high value targets in the beginning of a conflict, seeing your buddy get a JDAM or SDB on top of his head from a distance, and wondering where the hell did that come from?

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

Trivia time ( sorry almost a muntions area part of the forum )..... Need a real live munitions person to answer this...

Since the USAF really didn't use the 1000lb iron weapon much ( more popular in the USN ).... and it is kind of needed for this program... did this pose a small challange for USAF logistically speaking?

Veteran Joined: Jun 16, 2003 Posts: 268 Status: Offline

elp,

Don't think it will cause much of an issue, as the act of loading a 1000 lb is really no different than loading a 500 or 2K version. Same tools, support equipment, and short of some official training (same family group of munitions), the guys could load them. As for putting them (munitions) at bases, that of course would take a little more work, however I would think the supply is there and could be increased as the AF sees fit. Of course additional purchases of the muntions would be required, but that comes with fielding more jets.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

See whats so cool about this site? The actual AFSC is around to answer stuff. Thanks Loader. Didn't think the USAF would want any stinking USN munitions with the fire inhibit stuff and extra stripe painted on it. Laughing

Yeah, supply was what I was thinking. Just didn't know if we had Mk-83 and what I think will be really nice BLU-110, sitting around. I think BLU-110 is going to make a lot of fraggers real happy when deciding how to task F-22 in an air plan. Before sending in a giga-dollar cruise missile, first I would decide if the target could go away via an F-22 and BLU-110 (to make JDAM-35) hitting it.

Thanks again Smile

A BLU-110 down't neccesarily make it a JDAM.

F-16.net Editor Joined: Sep 23, 2003 Posts: 2833

guppygoshawk wrote:

A BLU-110 down't neccesarily make it a JDAM.

Yeah no kidding. Laughing

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Langley 1st drop