Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

oldogfighter wrote:

Honestly any old school dogfighter would chose the tomcat. it essentially was the last true dogfighter america wielded, and what i mean by this is that it was un godly fast had excellent visibility and made you feel right at home: that you were apart of the aircraft itself not just some component to a computer. which is all the f22 really is its just a flying super computer not a pilots dream people can throw out statistics and random facts about each plane and argue which is better but all it takes is one good pilot and all those stats go out the window an excellent pilot in a tomcat could down an f22 in a heart beat and vise versa the only thing the people of this forum are forgetting is that though the f22 has the cross section of a small bird on radar the tomcat has a 20mm vulcan cannon that doesnt need radar to fire. and in the hands of a good pilot could latch on to an f22 and open up: and as for why the tomcat is retired its just too damn costly to maintain its one true flaw but hey you all can have your own opinions its just my take on the situation.

That Raptor Pilot would have to be masturbating in his cockpit before the Turkey pilot regardless of skills, could sneak up and get within range to use that 20mm.

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oldogfighter wrote:

Honestly any old school dogfighter would chose the tomcat. it essentially was the last true dogfighter america wielded, and what i mean by this is that it was un godly fast had excellent visibility and made you feel right at home: that you were apart of the aircraft itself not just some component to a computer. which is all the f22 really is its just a flying super computer not a pilots dream people can throw out statistics and random facts about each plane and argue which is better but all it takes is one good pilot and all those stats go out the window an excellent pilot in a tomcat could down an f22 in a heart beat and vise versa the only thing the people of this forum are forgetting is that though the f22 has the cross section of a small bird on radar the tomcat has a 20mm vulcan cannon that doesnt need radar to fire. and in the hands of a good pilot could latch on to an f22 and open up: and as for why the tomcat is retired its just too damn costly to maintain its one true flaw but hey you all can have your own opinions its just my take on the situation.

There are alot of Tomcat fans out there, hell I are one and you are most definitly are one too. BUT! You have to be out of your mind to think that the F-14 was americas last true fighter. Even if I use your vague definition the F-14 was first flown in 70' and didnt reach the fleet till 74'. On the other hand the F-15 with a combat kill ration of 100+ to 0, was first flown in 72' and squadron service in 76'. AND, Its still in production.

BELA wrote:

That Raptor Pilot would have to be masturbating in his cockpit before the Turkey pilot regardless of skills, could sneak up and get within range to use that 20mm.

Thats funny righht there.

oldogfighter wrote:

Honestly any old school dogfighter would chose the tomcat. it essentially was the last true dogfighter america wielded, and what i mean by this is that it was un godly fast had excellent visibility and made you feel right at home: that you were apart of the aircraft itself not just some component to a computer. which is all the f22 really is its just a flying super computer not a pilots dream people can throw out statistics and random facts about each plane and argue which is better but all it takes is one good pilot and all those stats go out the window an excellent pilot in a tomcat could down an f22 in a heart beat and vise versa the only thing the people of this forum are forgetting is that though the f22 has the cross section of a small bird on radar the tomcat has a 20mm vulcan cannon that doesnt need radar to fire. and in the hands of a good pilot could latch on to an f22 and open up: and as for why the tomcat is retired its just too damn costly to maintain its one true flaw but hey you all can have your own opinions its just my take on the situation.

Pilots seems pretty connected to the F-22 from what I've heard. I'd also wager that the F-15 and 16 could out do the F-14 up close.

Planes matter as much as pilots, if they didn't we save on money by just making biplanes and pouring all the resources into turning out super pilots, but as it stands some kid who's spent a lot of time flying Falcon 4.0 could probably give a F-4 pilot a lot of trouble if he was placed in a F-16 with AMRAAM's.

oldogfighter wrote:

Honestly any old school dogfighter would chose the tomcat. it essentially was the last true dogfighter america wielded, and what i mean by this is that it was un godly fast had excellent visibility and made you feel right at home: that you were apart of the aircraft itself not just some component to a computer. which is all the f22 really is its just a flying super computer not a pilots dream people can throw out statistics and random facts about each plane and argue which is better but all it takes is one good pilot and all those stats go out the window an excellent pilot in a tomcat could down an f22 in a heart beat and vise versa the only thing the people of this forum are forgetting is that though the f22 has the cross section of a small bird on radar the tomcat has a 20mm vulcan cannon that doesnt need radar to fire. and in the hands of a good pilot could latch on to an f22 and open up: and as for why the tomcat is retired its just too damn costly to maintain its one true flaw but hey you all can have your own opinions its just my take on the situation.

While the Tomcat may not need radar to physically fire the cannon, you do need a radar return for the lead computing gunsight to work. As others have said, there are several aircraft in the Tomcat's generation that could give it a run for it's money.

oldogfighter wrote:

Honestly any old school dogfighter would chose the tomcat. it essentially was the last true dogfighter america wielded, and what i mean by this is that it was un godly fast had excellent visibility and made you feel right at home: that you were apart of the aircraft itself not just some component to a computer. which is all the f22 really is its just a flying super computer not a pilots dream people can throw out statistics and random facts about each plane and argue which is better but all it takes is one good pilot and all those stats go out the window an excellent pilot in a tomcat could down an f22 in a heart beat and vise versa the only thing the people of this forum are forgetting is that though the f22 has the cross section of a small bird on radar the tomcat has a 20mm vulcan cannon that doesnt need radar to fire. and in the hands of a good pilot could latch on to an f22 and open up: and as for why the tomcat is retired its just too damn costly to maintain its one true flaw but hey you all can have your own opinions its just my take on the situation.

Fighter,
I'm a big fan of the Tomcat and have been since I was a kid. I think it is one of the sexiest fighters ever built...especially the B's and D's with those monster GE's sticking out the back. I think it was a great jet at it's true design of protecting the fleet at long range against strike assets. It also became a great strike fighter in its own right (The Mighty Bombcat). And, the pilot has a much bigger vote in what happens than the Raptor pilot, that's for sure.

However, having said that, I (and I think most fighter pilots) will always choose what will give me the best chance to win. If I had to fight a Raptor, I'd want a Raptor. If I had to choose something other than a Raptor, I'd take an Eagle (or eight). The Tomcat (we used to call them TomGrapes) was not much of a match for the Eagle, so I don't think it'd get very far against a Raptor. Plus, a true fighter pilot flys by himself. An Eagle would stomp the Big Fighter and both "sets of eyes". Cool

wait I just noticed this thread has some long history, oh well, that explains the super weird poll in today's perspective.

BELA wrote:

That Raptor Pilot would have to be masturbating in his cockpit before the Turkey pilot regardless of skills, could sneak up and get within range to use that 20mm.

These legendary Navy Tomkitty drivers approves!

(Shameless and obligatory Top Gun reference)

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

BELA wrote:

That Raptor Pilot would have to be masturbating in his cockpit before the Turkey pilot regardless of skills, could sneak up and get within range to use that 20mm.

These legendary Navy Tomkitty drivers approves!

(Shameless and obligatory Top Gun reference)

GOOD LORD Scorpion1alpha!

I am new to this website, however I am familiar with both aircraft, hands on experience with the f-14 only info from websites on the raptor. I do have to say I can hear the argument on the f-14's side, hoever the raptor outranges, outguns, and outpreforms the raptor in every way. The real only thing the tomcat has going for it is that compared to the f-22's vectored thrust the f-14 is pilot friendly and the craft is not trying kill the pilot like bucking bull in a rodeo. An air force friend of my former marine buddy told him what a handful the vectored thrust was to deal with. Other than that hands down the raptor flies away with the tomcat in a fireball.

This pole is ridiculous. Wait, maybe not. Iranian F-14's might be squaring off against Raptors at some point - it's plausible. Imagine, a 43 year old American fighter in a fur ball with a 23 year old American fighter.

Hey wait a minute, I'm 43 myself. I know plenty of 23 year old punks I could give a run for their money... Smile

The question is, do some actually believe Topgun's star could come close to matching a Raptor, or is that 9% just joking around?

It's not about the age or technology by itself.

It's a combination of technology, strategy, support, training, environment, and numerous other factors.

There's no clear answer to this.

Especially given that we don't know if the claims that Iran modified their F-14's are true.

If I was a betting man, I would bet on US tech.

Ergo F-22 would win, but that's based on all the public knowledge.

There are so many factors that I can't give any valid odds of potential kill to lost ratio.

avon1944 wrote:

checksixx wrote:

Its too bad the F-14 never integrated the AIM-120...would have been a good capability to have.

Actually, the F-14D was the first fighter of the fourth generation fighters who's software was integrated with the AMRAAM but, being the only fourth generation to already have a fire-and-forget missile, further work was canceled. The F-14 outlived its major threat -defending against anti-ship missile carrying Soviet bombers attacking carrier or surface action groups with mass formation attacks.

bobbyjoeblob wrote:

OK I am a huge Tomcat fan... But a Raptor would beat the crap out of it anyday.

I have been a fan of the F-14 since Grumman won the contract back in 1969 but, lets be real folks... it is not threat to the F-22A, in any respect!

This is old, but just to set the facts straight: The F-14 was the first aircraft to fire AIM-120 and was scheduled to have it integrated. Meanwhiles, in a back-channel effort, LANTIRN was tested on the Tomcat and it was found it did even better on it than on the USAF aircraft it was originally intended for. However, since the F-14 was already scheduled to be retired in favor of the Super Hornet, NAVAIR said they would not provide the money to operationally deploy LANTIRN on the F-14. Looking ahead at what was expected to happen in at least the next decade, the Tomcat community saw that air-to-air was not going to be a major player, and that strike was much more important. So, they asked that the work to integrate AIM-120 be stopped and instead use the money for LANTIRN. ... And so it was.

You know, a similar topic was discussed rather heavily over at http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-13612.html.

In fact, there was an impressive January 3, 2011 post on what would happen, if the Tomcat hadn't been pushed aside for the Super Bug, regarding an advanced Tomcat vs. Raptor. I especially respect the author's cogent points and informed speculation, and can honestly say I agree with what he said 100%. Wink

This informative and interesting post can be found at; http://www.f-16.net/index.php/index.php ... p;p=178240

aaam wrote:

You know, a similar topic was discussed rather heavily over at http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-13612.html.

In fact, there was an impressive January 3, 2011 post on what would happen, if the Tomcat hadn't been pushed aside for the Super Bug, regarding an advanced Tomcat vs. Raptor. I especially respect the author's cogent points and informed speculation, and can honestly say I agree with what he said 100%. Wink

This informative and interesting post can be found at; http://www.f-16.net/index.php/index.php ... p;p=178240

I consider myself a big Tomcat fan, but I believe the SH was the right choice. Not much need for an expensive to maintain 4.5 gen heavy fighter on carrier decks. The Super Hornets are good enough.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 vs. F-14? Would there be any competition?