Forum: Air Power

First I want to tell you about Soviet portable missile launchers - "Strela" and "Igla".

It was bloody summer of 1992 year. Shevarnadze became "czar" of "independant Georgia" and friend of that butcher Yeltsin after coup d'etat in 1991 year. When fascist jerk Shevarnadze received help in reconstruction of Tbilisi from Moscow goverment (Popov and Luzhkov), he started war against abkhazian nation (abkhazian leaders were asking to join Russian Federation - "democratical" Russia declined). Bands of Georgian nazis attacked recreation cities Gagry and Suhumi to kill hundreds of Russian women and children. Georgian air force commander personally piloted his Su-25 "Grach" (these magnificent Soviet machine was nicknamed "Grach" for its ability to hit hardest targets - it is much more efficient then American A-10 "Thunderbolt"!) to destroy ships with Russian refugees. "Democratical" Russian goverment stood idle by while fascist regime of Shevarnadze slaughtered Russians. And once again, there was man with honor to protest against this - and once again it was Spetsnaz soldier. It was summer morning, when man with "Strela" missile launcher stood against aircraft. First missile Spetsnaz launched "locked sun" and missed. Georgian pilot spotted launch and moved into attack position - he was an experienced ace (two medals for Afghanistan war). Seconds remain before missile strikes. Spetsnaz supposed to run away, but that would mean that killings of Russian refugees would go on. Spetsnaz took second "Strela". It was suicide, because if he misses, he would be killed; and in all cases he would be burned by flame of starting engine. But he was Spetsnaz, and he never stepped back. He launched "Strela". Missile rushed to Georgian assault aircraft, sending black soul of black colonel to black chasms of hell. After that event, nobody attacked ships with Russian refugees. However, this heroic Spetsnaz soldier was arrested in 1998. He was accused in assassination of that capitalist bastard Holodov.

Anyway, Soviets also had "Igla"-class PZRK missiles. Even "Igla-1" is six times better than "Strela-2M". This is anti-aircraft missiles of new generation, designed to blast away heavily-armored targets which will try to distract anti-aircraft missiles with decoys. Americans thought that their "Stingers" are the best - and they were wrong. Iraq war proved it. When anti-air defences of Iraq were destroyed by approximately 2000 Western aircrafts, arabs still had "Strela" and "Igla" launchers. "Igla" proved to be superior to "Stinger" in all ways. Maximum attack heights of "Igla" and "Stinger" is approximately equal - 3500 meters. But while "Stinger" can hit only targets above 30 meters, "Igla" can hit targets which are even 10 meters close to surface. "Stinger" cannot hit targets which move faster than 340 meters per second, while "Igla" can blast targets even if they move 400 meters per second. Probability of succesful attack with "Stinger" is low - only 30%, while probability of succesful attack with "Igla" is 60% - that's twice more efficient! Also, "Igla" is lighter than "Stinger" and carries more powerful warhead, then "Stinger". Moreover, "Stinger" takes 30 seconds to arm, while "Igla" can be armed in 10-13 seconds - that's crucial in war time. Also, "Stinger" has low range - only 4500 meters, while "Igla" has 5200 meters range. But that is not all. Fuel of "Igla" missile is incendiary, and becomes part of warhead when missile strikes. Also, when "Igla" strikes target, it pierces armor and only then explodes, causing more damage. "Igla" has unique computer system, which strikes only most crucial spots of target. But the most exciting thing in "Igla" is GSN (golovka samonavedenya) - targeting system of "Igla". The catch is that this system cannot be jammed. GSN is also equipped with logic selector bloc, which ignores even most advanced American decoys. So, all dumb capitalist tricks are useless against this miracle of Soviet technology. Americans had used all their resources to get Soviet GSN. That was done only after "democratical" fascists took power in Russia. When "Chubays Era" began, Soviet GSN was bought by "NOSKA" company from Poland. Americans thought that they can use these Soviet GSNs against Russians. Wrong! GSN of "Igla" doesn't lock Russia-controlled aircrafts! That's why Chechen terrorists couldn't use "Igla" launchers against Russian forces! Also, "Igla" is very strong and reliable (just as all Soviet machinery) - you can throw it, you can even fire at it, but it will still be fully functional. Commander of Russian division, armed with "Igla" launchers, has Soviet computer which receives telecode information from control centers. It shows positions, coordinates, hell, even countries, of enemy air units. And now imagine how powerful would be new generation of "Igla" missiles, based on sub-micron Soviet computer chips, produced using Kumakhov x-ray lens!

Soviet control systems are best in the world - every kid knows that. Soviet machines are miracles of cybernetics. They form huge chains, merging all Soviet unints into one humongous cyber-organism. Quite in communist style! This principle is called "boyevaya totalitarnost" ("battle totalitarity"). Let's check characteristics of them. "Senezh-M1E" (weakened, export variant!): range - 600 kilometers, maximum number of tracked targets - 120, units controlled - 17 ground units and 6 fighters. That is much better than American counterparts "Missile-Minder", "Sage" and English "Nomad". Russian control complex is faster, more agile and more efficient. And it simulatiously coorinates actions of fighters and missiles - first in the world! They look like quite ordinary "Ural" trucks, but they are really super-efficient coordination machines. But that is not all. Other Russian control system, called "Rubezh-ME", can link up to 21 interceptors which can start from three different airstrips.

And Russians also have best lasers in the world! American lasers are nothing without magnificent Soviet "Pamir ZU" MGD generator they bought from post-Soviet Russia (Americans from RA2 didn't have Soviet "Pamir ZU", so Prism Tanks and Prism Towers are unrealistic!)! Soviet lasers can destroy American aircrafts, missiles and sattelites without problems. But this lasers can also be modified to be used in industry and farming. They Soviet machines proved to be efficient and reliable. Imagine rays of light which vaporize locust swarms! Instrument of Gods!

And of course, Soviets have best sensors. Let's take ZGRLS as example - radars which see beyond horizon. Rays of ordinary radar cannot view area beyond horizon - because Earth is round thing. If you want to scan 3000 kilometers around, you need to set radar at 20-25 kilometers height. But in 1946 Soviet scientist Nicolai Kabanov devised short-wave sensor, which can scan 3000 kilometers around from ground level! This machine uses radiowave reflections from ionosphere layers approximately 50 kilometers above surface. That was a long way, but Russians finally managed to create fully-functional model of ground-based ZGRLS. They devised project of flying ZGRLS, but it was not finished because of break-up of Soviet Union. But still - Russians have ZGRLS! Even Russian missile boats use them! Also, it was Soviets who developed long-wave sensors, which can perfectly see so-called "stealth" aircrafts ("stealth" aircrafts can hide only from short-wave radars). Russian "Kasta-2-1" can perfectly detect "stealth" aircrafts, pilotless miniature recon planes and helicopters which try to hide behind hills. "Kasta-2-2" can even calculate absolutely accurate height of target. Also, Soviets have "Protivnik-GE". It scans area in 400 kilometer radius. It detects "stealth" aircrafts in 150 kilometer radius (other Soviet anti-"stealth" machines, like "Aerobot", can detect "stealth" aircrafts in 500 kilometer radius). Moreover, it can see space targets - everything that moves below 120 kilometers would be detected. This radar cannot be jammed, and it is very mobile - it takes only 70 minutes to deploy and needs only two operators. Also, Soviets have E-801 radar, used to monitor air and sea targets and detect low-height targets (like "Tomahawk" cruise missiles). This radar is carried by Ka-31 helicopter. Group of such helicopters can patrol areas near vital objects of Russia, protecting them from American cruise missiles. Moreover, it can be carried by zeppelins, which are cheap to build and maintain and can hover in the air for weeks! Of course, America can use anti-radar missiles. But Russians have "Baryer" system. This is system of receivers and transmitters, which consume power, equal to power of conventional cellular phone, but can detect any cruise missile, "stealth" aircraft or anything else. No radioabsorbing cover can hide from "Baryer". Space from one "Baryer" system to another - 50 kilometers, that means 10 systems (that's extremely cheap!) can protect 500 kilometers. But that is not all! Soviet Institute of Control Problems devised new technology of detection: it detects not object itself, but trace object creates (both in air and in water). And this trace will always be - even if American machines would be 100% invisible to radar! Every Soviet radar can tuned to use this technique! All American "stealth" aircrafts are completely visible for Soviet machines! Trillions of American taxpayers' dollars, spent on "stealth" projects, went down the drain! Yet another glorius victory of glorious Soviet science - most advanced science in the world!

Now let's think about F-22 "Raptor". First prototype of this extremely expensive capitalist toy took up in 29th of September, 1990 year. "Raptor" research project alone took 15 billions of taxpayers' money! Americans are bad engineers, so construction of F-22 alone costs 100 millions of dollars - twice more than was planned! So, American engineers decided to simplify this machine. They removed side radars, leaving only forward view radar. Take off characteristics of F-22 is no better than F-15. Americans decided to turn this enormously expensive aircraft into multi-purpose machine - to fight against air, ground and sea targets. F-22 has also limited control over thrust vector: not as good as on Soviet models, but better than nothing. F-22 was build basing on "stealth" technology - it has specially-modified wings and hull. But Soviet aircrafts can see "stealth" machines! Soviet counterpart to F-22 is much more efficient and cheap. It is called MiG-MFI (MFI is translated as "multi-role tactical fighter"). This is supernaturally maneurable, dynamically unstable Soviet single-seat aircraft of fifth generation, equipped with unique AL-41F engines (with completely controllable thrust vector). These engines are much better than those on F-22. They can be used to perform maneurs to distract American impulse-doppler radars (which can see only moving targets) on aircrafts and missiles. All weaponry of MiG-MFI is carried in inner pods for better aerodynamics. MiG-MFI has impulse-doppler radar with unique phase array of fifth generation, which is better than anything Americans have! MiG-MFI can simulatiously attack 20 targets. Bioadaptive indication system in cockpit and unique interactive control system merges pilot with machine. If pilot is in bad condition, MiG-MFI will detect it and will function without him. MiG-MFI also has unique passive radar system, which allows him to detect enemy with main radar turned off. But most magnificent thing in MiG-MFI is unique revolutionary system, which renders this Soviet fighter invisible for enemy radars! Let me explain. American "stealth" technology is based on concept of Soviet scientist Ufimtsev. But this concept was not devised for aircrafts, because it harms aerodynamics - Americans were fools to use it on their F-117 and B-2 (which have aerodynamics of flying office desk!). Americans also invested billions of dollars into creation of special radioabsorbing materials, but still all "stealth" ability is eliminated when such aircraft flies through snow or rain. F-117 cannot move faster than sonic speed, it has limited range, it has no radar and pilot is placed into extremely small triangular cockpit. Piloting such plane is torture. Soviets used other, revolutionary tactic, spending thousand times less. Soviet scientists from Keldysh research center, lead by academician Anatoly Koroteev, devised light, but powerful generator, which emit electronic radiation, creating plasma field around aircraft. When beam of enemy radar goes through plasma field, it loses most of its energy. Moreover, radio wave tries to evade plasma field, and that increases efficiency of generator. Do you understand what it means? It means that MiG-MFI becomes invisible! And it has flawless aerodynamics of real dogfighting aircraft, not crappy characteristics of American hybrids of mantis and bycicle, which can function only at night! But that's not all! MiG-MFI can use this generator to create lots of false targets (they will have different heights and speeds, so will be impossible to say whether it is just Soviet trick or real invasion). How will fight between MiG-MFI and F-22 will look like? That's simple. MiG-MFI has better radar, and this radar can be used to detect F-22 by tracking air fluctuations. So, MiG-MFI detects F-22 and launches long-range missiles (Soviets always had better missiles, they even have air-to-air missiles with 400 kilometers range), remaining invisible for "Raptor". If MiG-MFI runs out of missiles, it can move closer, remaining invisible. Because MiG-MFI is almost 50% faster than F-22, much more maneurable and carries better missiles, it will win dogfight without any problems. Theoretically, F-22 can attack MiG-MFI with "Sidewinders" (which have heat-seaking abilities), but MiG-MFI has no problem in distracting "Sidewinder", so it is useless. Besides, "Sidewinder" has six times smaller lock angle, then even outdated Soviet missile R-73. So, MiG-MFI is superior over F-22 in absolutely all ways. Soviet technology was, is and will be best. But that is not all. Cheap, but effective MiG-MFI plasma stealth field generator is universal: it can be mounted on any aircraft or cruise missile! Do you understand what it means? That means that Russians can equip all Soviet aircrafts with them, turning even outdated machines into deadly uninterceptable weapons! If Russia goes communist tomorrow and declares non-nuclear war on America, it will use cheap and effective anti-sattelite drones to wipe out entire NATO sattelite network; swarms of Russian spy sattelites, launched from Tu-160 "Blackjack" bombers ("Burlak-Diana" system) will track NATO targets, and armies of invisible fighters will destroy them, facing little or no resistance! This technology can bring entire Western civilization back to knees!

Of course, Russians have more traditional, but not less destructive weaponry. That is different modifications of Su-27 (which is faster, more maneurable and has better missiles, than American F-15), Su-37 (with fully controllable thrust vector and supernaturally agile air-to-air missiles), MiG-29 (which is even more maneurable, then Su-27), MiG-31 (best heavy fighter in the world, great interceptor with powerful phase array radar, which cannot be jammed, and with deadliest long-range missiles ever created), A-50 and An-71 (Soviet DRLO (AWACS) planes, which are better, then American counterparts).

Let's think about MiG-31. In comparision with MiG-29 or Su-27 it looks heavy and clumsy, but it is best heavy fighter in the world. First MiG-31 took off in 1979 year, that is many years ago. There's also modification of this plane - MiG-31M. It carries phase array radar, which can see so-called "stealth" aircrafts. It can function like heavy patrol fighter, moving in group of four and coordinating attacks of light fighters like Su-27 and MiG-29. But it is also a great interceptor. It carries air-to-air missiles with approximately 425 kilometers range. American best long-range missile "Phoenix" has only 130 kilometers range, but only F-14 fighters can carry them ("Phoenix" is inferior to Soviet missiles: even outdated Soviet missile R-33 has range of "Phoenix", and R-33 can be mounted on almost any Soviet aircraft). Do you understand, what it means? It means that MiG-31 fighters will blow away all American planes without even entering their scanning range! Absolute air superiority! MiG-31 can even be used against American AWACS planes, blinding American air forces! Soviet technology proved to be superior once again! Now, don't tell me that Americans have better planes - that is simply wrong! Soviet planes are the best!

Or, yes, have I mentioned in previous post that Soviet S-200, S-300 and S-400 anti-aircraft defence systems can carry tactical nuclear warheads? They can simply vaporize entire armadas of NATO aircrafts!
_________________
General VLADIMIR GEORGIEVICH FROLOV

F-16.net Sponsor

Turbox, you forgot a few things.

The Russian army has stockpiled Holy Handgrenades of Antiok to bloweth us to smithereens.
The Russians have perfected omnidirectional active stealth and deployed it on ground troops.
Stabilized nuclear fusion reaction to produce almost limitless power.
All new Russian technology costs approximately .
All Russian pilots have ESP, can telekinetically deflect missiles and bullets, and their bowel movements smell of roses.

Sorry man, this is probably the wrong forum to post such conspiracy theories.A few things utterly wrong here.

If the Mig-31 is the best plane in the world then why is russia buying up Su 27's and 30's? If Mig is so great why have they lost every recent contract.
An A2A missile with 400 km range? That wouldn't happen to be a suicide plane would it? A missile of that range would be about the size of a decent cruise missile or need some serious help staying in the air. It would either be slow, or huge and pretty easy to dodge at that range. It's a basic principle of rocketry.
Beyond the horizon radar has been out a while. I think you can either you a frequency that will curve down or bounce it off the atmosphere. I'm pretty sure that's standard by now.

That's what I could get and I'm not even able to access classified info and it's late. If you're going to post such nonsense at least post a source or you will get laughed off the board.

Pffffffffffff Rolling Eyes

Americans may be crappy engineers but for 50+ years in aviation now we brought home the bacon. So whatever they are doing I won't complain.

-Aaron

Funniest thread ever...

Keep this thread. I need some entertainment Laughing

Parts of the original post will be used by the F-16.net Stage and Theater Follys ( LIVE ! Now On Tour ) coming to an NCO / O'Club / Squadron Bar / Ops Desk / Job Control ... near you. Laughing

(I think the original post is STBYGAIN or Gums playing a joke with a different log on handle) Smile

Last edited by boff180 on Oct 17, 2005 - 08:26 PM; edited 1 time in total

Well, he lost all credibility when he said the British CCC system is called Nomad...

- Nomad was an annual air combat exercise on the North Sea Ranges operated from RAF Waddington involving the RAF, Spanish, French, Beligan and Swiss air forces! The final one being held in 2004 as the ACMI ranges have now been closed.
- Sidewinder model he talks of is the M and NOT the X which is slightly better than the R-73.
- Nuclear armed anti-air missiles aren't new mate; read up on the Genie.

Although this guys does make one or two key points that he is semi-right about...

1) Missiles... yes, technically in specs Russian missiles are faster and longer ranged and harder to shake-off BUT.. apart from the R-27AE and the R-77 they are all SARH guided (apart from the R-27T/TE series which is IR) therefore one ONE aircraft can be engaged at a time at these ranges... which is a major disadvantage.

2) Mig-31 and the R-33... this combo is very very highly respected here in the UK. the Mig-31 is a great long range interceptor worthy of battle. However, close in it is useless... it has no manourveurability (4G max) and is armed with R-60... not the most advanced WVR missile in the world and is extremely short ranged. The R-33? Yes a very long range weapon however it is ooold Mig-25 tech and is easily jammed... and only the Mig-23,25,31 could carry it IIRC. The Mig-31 now carries the R-40 which is a new long range missile but still has one major defect... its SARH!

Maneuverability isn't everything anymore, sure something needs to be able to turn to get its GUN to bare... but with HMS technology its going to be first look-first kill... the western HMS missiles (Aim-9X, IRIS-T and ASRAAM, the latter having a complete sphere engagement envelope) have much larger engagement envelopes than the current R-73 variants that are constrained by Russian IRIS-T tech and cannot cover the entire forward hemisphere, only 75% of it!

An unbiased apprasel there... when the ramjet version of the R-77 comes available on the Su-30,3x and Mig-31 series then they will be hard to beat BVR... an extremely long-ranged weapon thats active radar... no one would want to go up against that.

Andy

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

Quote:

Soviet control systems are best in the world - every kid knows that. Soviet machines are miracles of cybernetics. They form huge chains, merging all Soviet unints into one humongous cyber-organism.

Hear that?

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr That's the sound of a nice troll. Applause

Quote:

Soviet control systems are best in the world - every kid knows that. Soviet machines are miracles of cybernetics. They form huge chains, merging all Soviet unints into one humongous cyber-organism.

Lol I missed that..

Yeah I get what he is saying although.... its called the Internet Very Happy

But it is SOVIET internet! Far superior to western capitolist pig-dog internet! Rolling Eyes

TenguNoHi wrote:

Pffffffffff Rolling Eyes

Americans may be crappy engineers but for 50+ years in aviation now we brought home the bacon. So whatever they are doing I won't complain.

-Aaron

The american arrogance was their biggest enemy they were so convinced that they were super powerfull but at the same time all, I repeat all US Mil and intel. organisations said the USAF would be whiped out by the russians in under 7 days.

The communists had cheaper aircraft they had better Short range missles (think of the archer only now in 2005 america has caught up on this point) The russians had long range missles that made the phoenix look asif it was a short range missles, the Russians had more of everything. The Americans didnt have any good air defence systems untill the Soviet collapse. The Russians had 3rd thrust vectoring while the americans didnt have any form of thrust vectoring.

Face it America, you aren't all that.... only now that russia doesnt have enough money you are catching up (wich you arent yet) My dad was A RNLAF pilot and he also knew the entire nato wouldn't stand a chance against russia and america new it too. as i sayed before they just didnt say this to their people untill the end of the war.

America didn't win Russia just ran out of money (whilst russia put in alot more money into defence if america had put as much money into defence percentwise america would have collapsed befor the 1960's)

Now that your to proud to see this as Americans (like the british were long ago and it caused their empire to collapse) doesn't mean it's not true.

Take look way back in 1950 russia became in power so quick that american was like wtf how the hell they do that if usa was bombed like russian www2 there no way in hell usa will be like that how they are today. dont get me wrong I live in usa they have great thing its just one thing impressed me how they do everything fast they rebuild everything fast man that crazy.

I am not Russian is just crazy how they did all of those things like i said no way in freaking hell usa did like russian did, yes russian had bad times but still they impressed me

Sorry for my stupid language. I am trying to be better it.

No offense on Americans. I love the USA. You just have to understand what I mean.

Piska out

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

To Driver:

Iwanttorespondinalongramblingpostdevoidofpunctuationorevenspaces
becauseweallknowUSAisthejunkandrussiaisthebestofeverythingobviously
americafanboysaretheonlypeoplewhothingf22couldbeataIL-2inadogfight
everyoneinworldknowsthisisnotthecaseSturmovikwouldbeatRaptorany
dayoftheweek.

Oh, and the USSR "lost" the Cold War BECAUSE they ran out of money.

Driver wrote:

The american arrogance was their biggest enemy they were so convinced that they were super powerfull but at the same time all, I repeat all US Mil and intel. organisations said the USAF would be whiped out by the russians in under 7 days.

The communists had cheaper aircraft they had better Short range missles (think of the archer only now in 2005 america has caught up on this point) The russians had long range missles that made the phoenix look asif it was a short range missles, the Russians had more of everything. The Americans didnt have any good air defence systems untill the Soviet collapse. The Russians had 3rd thrust vectoring while the americans didnt have any form of thrust vectoring.

Face it America, you aren't all that.... only now that russia doesnt have enough money you are catching up (wich you arent yet) My dad was A RNLAF pilot and he also knew the entire nato wouldn't stand a chance against russia and america new it too. as i sayed before they just didnt say this to their people untill the end of the war.

America didn't win Russia just ran out of money (whilst russia put in alot more money into defence if america had put as much money into defence percentwise america would have collapsed befor the 1960's)

Maybe there's still time to surrender, if we're lucky....JL Raleigh NC

Forum: Air Power

Truth about Soviet technological superiority