Forum: Air Power

A friend of mine claims there hasn't been much dogfighting since Korea. I'm gathering info to reply to him, but I think that there was quite a bit in VN. Since that time, I'm not too sure if there has been that much, since the other side hasn't had much of chance, have they? Don't all the modern fighters also have guns and cannon? Wouldn't these be mainly for dogfighting or are they intended for other use such as ground support? I appreciate any info.

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I'm sure Steve Ritchie or Duke Cunnningham could set your friend straight. Wink

There have been ACM engagements in all major conflicts where opposing fighters were involved, from Korea up thru ODS. And not just US forces but other countries also (Israel, Pakistan, India, etc.). With a little research and a few hours with Google I'm sure there's some online sources that'll go into more detail.

Ever since the advent of the 300+ MPH fighter, so-called "experts" have written ACM's obituary only to be proven wrong time and again. Probably the biggest slap in the face came during Vietnam when the early model F-4s were fielded without an internal gun because everyone just KNEW all future air battle would be intercepting Russian bombers coming over the Pole or attacking the Carrier Battle Group at .9 Mach. Then in Vietnam, after a couple of BVR fratricide incidents involving the Sparrow, the ROEs said you had to get a positive VID on the bogey before engaging. Well damn! If ya get in that close, what do ya have? A turning dogfight with nothin' but Sidewinders to engage with! Sheesh!! Most if not all modern fighters have internal guns because nobody wants that silliness repeated. They can be used for any purpose that requires an accurately placed round. Infantry support, close-in ACM, anti-shipping, whatever. And remember.....no ECM equipment made can jam a bullet! Wink

Also, if you have a chance, check out the History Channel's program "Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles", either when it's broadcast again or on DVD. Absolutely the most stunning and accurate graphical recreations of air combat I've ever seen! The CG aircraft were breathtakingly real. The only thing missing were the moving flight control surfaces. They also gave explanations of manuevers and the theory behind 'em, simulated HUD perspectives, commentary by the (surviving) participants. Great show!

Forum: Air Power

Modern Dogfighting