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NewsBot
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 Posted: Sep 14, 2005 - 07:05 AM
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 Posted: Oct 14, 2008 - 12:12 AM
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Loomis
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Posted: Sep 14, 2005 - 05:05 AM
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Enthusiast
Joined: May 31, 2005
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The descriptions of the JSOW variants are almost completely wrong. AGM-154A is no longer in production; Turkey is interested in the AGM-154A-1 which is a unitary weapon carrying the BLU-111 payload.
AGM-154C uses the Broach warhead, which is a two-stage payload. JSOW C has not had a data link for almost 10 years. |
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Lieven
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Posted: Sep 14, 2005 - 04:07 PM
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F-16.net Webmaster
Joined: May 23, 2003
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Hi Loomis,
Thank you for pointing that out. I have now corrected the information.
Kind regards,
Lieven |
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Rocky_LC
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 - 05:58 AM
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Very good Loomis - You are on top of things.
In another interesting note... The TuAF is considering performing their own integration effort for JSOW, as opposed to purchasing a complete avionics S/W suite to provide the JSOW capability.
Rocky |
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Robust
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 - 10:16 PM
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AFAIK, JSOW has already been integrated and certified for USAF F-16s. Am I wrong? I assume that CCIP contract that TuAF signed with Lockheed covers all weapons integration issues...
TuAF also requested the following weapons and systems in additon to JSOW request...These weapon requests come after TuAF signed a 1.1 billion dollar CCIP upgrade program with Lockheed Martin. The contract covered initially 117 F-16 (37 Block-30, 4 Block-40 and 76 Block-50) with an option of 100 more F-16 Block-40s to be decided later on until 2006...The following request of 215 IIF and 203 Link-16 request confirms that TuAF's CCIP program will also include the option of 100 Block-40s in the initially signed contract...
DSCA wrote:
Turkey - Munitions and Aircraft Components for F-16 Aircraft
On 8 September 2005, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Turkey of munitions and aircraft components for F-16 aircraft as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $175 million.
The Government of Turkey has requested a possible sale of:
Major Defense Equipment (MDE):
--215 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF);
--203 Link 16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT);
--2 AGM-84H Joint Standoff Land Attack Missile-Expanded Response Exercise Missiles;
--2 AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missile Captive Air Training Missiles;
--50 CBU-103 and 50 CBU-105 Bombs;
--Joint Direct Attack Munition Kits: 200 GBU-31 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits, 200 GBU-38 kits, and 100 BLU-109;
--Joint Direct Attack Munition Integration Test Assets: 6 GBU-31 and 4 GBU-38 kits.
Non-MDE
--1 AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW) Missile Simulation Unit;
--2 AGM-154C JSOW Captive Flight Vehicles;
--2 AGM-84H SLAM-ER Missile Guidance Sections;
--1 AGM-84H SLAM-ER Recoverable Air-Test Vehicles;
--2 AGM-84L HARPOON Captive Air Training Missiles;
--2 AGM-84L HARPOON Missile Guidance Sections;
--1 AGM-88B HARM MOD III Telemetry Section; and
--2 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Captive Air Training Missiles
Also included are system integration and testing, missile modifications, software development/integration, test sets and support equipment, simulation units, link pods, spare and repair parts, publications and technical data, maintenance, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor representatives, contractor engineering and technical support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $175 million.
Source: US Defense Security Cooperation Agency; dated Sept. 8, web-posted Sept. 9, 2005
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Rocky_LC
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 01:43 AM
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As you say... JSOW has already been integrated and certified for USAF F-16s. That is very true. But that does not mean that these capabilities are integrated into the country specific (or EPAF) OFPs..
The fact that there is a Missile Simulator Unit (a non-flyable, non "operational" laboratory piece of test equipment) reqested lends creedence to my previous comment. Captive Flight Vehicles would also be useful in the verification phase of a weapons integration effort....
Thanks for the info.
Rocky |
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elp
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 03:45 AM
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F-16.net Editor
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 2848
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For what it does JSOW isn't all that impressive and rather expensive. What if you had a war and JSOW wasn't there? I suppose the Diamondback Wing kit which when mated with the Wind Corrected Munitions Container... or when mated with JDAM... wasn't expensive enough for the U.S. taxpayer.  I would rather uses Diamondback to glide in a CBU-105 ( with BLU 108B SFW ) or standoff glide a JDAM.... than pay for JSOW. Not to mention SDB is coming on line. The first batch is pricey at $64,000 per item but batchs after that should come down in price ( new factory for SDB paid for etc etc). And as any good fragger knows, SDB ... while it can't handle every target it can handle many... and it can standoff glide too.
J$OW, sow as in pork... squeel like a pig U.S. taxpayer. You got an aweful purdy mouth.
Which FMS playbook is being used for the Turkey munitions deal? The one where they pay for it or the more favorite one where the U.S. taxpayer picks up the tab in FMS/FMA? I don't think Turkey will be invaded anytime soon. Why the rush for the military industrial complex to unload all the gear on them? Sorry to be a wet blanket.  all in good fun. |
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Robust
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 06:58 AM
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Hi Elp,
JSOWs requested by TuAF are special versions AGM-154A-1 with Unitary Warhead Mk-82(BLU-111/B) and AGM-154C carries new BROACH tandem warhead(blast and penetrator) designed for Hard Targets like bunkers, shelters, underground facilites etc...AGM-154C also uses highly accurate ATA(Automatic IIR Image Recognition Technique) guidance in the terminal stage which makes it ideal weapon...Both of the weapons are new versions of JSOW and have recently been released for full production in 2006...For submition type large area effect munition, cheaper WCMDs and JDAM series weapons also requested by TuAF...The impression I got, TuAF want to use JSOWs for high value hard targets for stand-off distances (40-70nm), other WCMD and JDAMs for more traditional targets in the battle field...Still none of the WCMD or JDAMs or other add on kits can carry a BROACH warhead to 70nm distance...
Finally, TuAF is in the process of upgrading fleet of 217 F-16 similar to USAF CCIP program. The initial contract already signed and will run through 2010 and initial operational capability will be gained in 2011..These weapons requested will come during this next 5 year period...TuAF so far did not invested in the weaponary. Its inventory of A-G munitions consist of AGm-65G Maverick, GBU-10/12, CBU-58, Mk-20 rokeye for F-16 fleet...The idea is to maintain and keep up F-16 fleet with other NATO members...Most of them already flying up dated F-16s (MLU or Block-52+) or USAFs CCIP program...
The TuAF CCIP program is financed by US Goverment loans with a 6-7% interest annually...US stopped military aid to Turkey( and Greece)long time ago.... |
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Rocky_LC
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 06:50 PM
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Hi Elp -
A couple of comments on your suggestions:
WCMD-ER: Canceled / Funding Zeroized
Diamondback Wing Kit & JDAM: I'm not sure that's operationally deployed (yet) - Anybody?
CBU-105 with SFW: Talk about an expensive weapon! - the SFW drives the cost on that one - and it's high (I'll bet it costs more than a JSOW)
SDB: Not operational yet.
Waiting on SDB (and the associated release to FMS customers) could result in the TuAF waiting a long time. It's like waiting to upgrade your computer to a newer model. Sometimes you just bite the bullet and buy what's available - especially if you want long range, stand-off with hard target penetrators.
Rocky |
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Robust
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 07:40 PM
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Hi Rocky,
TuAF may be interested in integrating and certifying JSOWs for F-4E/2020s, which are recently upgraded with EL/M-2032 SAR/GMTI mode radar, Ring Laser INS/GPS, MFDs, EW suites, Have Quick-II Radios etc...There was a need to introduce a new generation smart weapons for F-4E/2020 in order to take advantage of high resolution SAR/GMTI mode of the Elta radar which gives true all weather strike capability...So far only weapon integrated was expensive Popeye-I for Stand-Off Strike missions...There was plans to buy one or two more "J" type weapons for F-4E/2020... |
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elp
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Posted: Sep 19, 2005 - 04:31 PM
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F-16.net Editor
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 2848
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Hi guys. Thanks. Nice thing about this site is more times than not I am communicating with someone that has knowledge on the topic.
My thoughts on the wiz-bang terminal IR targeting system would be: Great... that system is also awesome on the SLAM-ER. Not a complete apples to apples comparison, but in the same price range as JSOW depending on how the deal is written.
Diamondback was a test program... that as far as I know worked. My goal was to point out that we could to things a better way sometimes... considering all the other things we are short on money with: flying hours... spares.... ( yup the system would rather buy new stuff and put sustainment after the buy down on the list ) and... numerous other things my DOD compadres can think off.... ( hint hint )
Yes... BLU-108B is exensive... yet CBU-105 setup as a BLU-108B carrier .... contains more munitions than a JSOW B. ( using old JSOW name conventions...sorry ) nice thing about BLU-108B is its shocking... proven... combat performance....
http://www.systems.textron.com/movies/sfw_2000.wmv ( windows video on SFW ) >> right click "save as" <<
Not that DOD wakes up every morning and thinks.... I hope ELP approves........
Anyway all I can say is JSOW is very very pricey.... the one version as you mentioned has the fancy broach warhead. Cool. How many targets require this? And... can those (few... as I think there are number of targets that need this...... be served by JASSM? Of which in the case of the U.S. we are going to have anyway. 6-7% loan. Cool. Better than the Poland give away. Still like to see the fine print though.
Yeah.. Turkey setup with modern PGMs .... along with Poland.... should be good to go. They can do the next "Allied Force" 1999 job for us if needed.  |
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Robust
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Posted: Sep 22, 2005 - 02:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 53
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Hi Elp,
If you go back to Allied Force 1999, you will see that TuAF was indeed participating in A-G bombing missions...TuAF provided 11 F-16s during the operation, and performed CAPs and CAS with their Block-40s...According to TuAF press release over 40 tons of Mk-82/84 series bombs was dropped by TuAF during the operation...In one of the CAP missions, F-16s flew 9 hours and 30 minutes straight and performed 4 air-refuelings at night after the replacement Belgium F-16s had to abort their take offs and return to the base for maintanance...
As noticed by USAF those days, non-US NATO partners clearly lacked smart weapons during that operation. TuAF efforts now is to get best of weapons available for the F-4E/2020 and F-16 fleet now, and F-35 in the future...All of these JSOW, JDAM, WCMD and SLAM-ER will be in the inventory of TuAF for next 20-25 years I assume...TuAF has requested only "50" AGM-154C which should be enough to cover their targetting needs...Considering the geography of Turkey and threats around the country, "50" AGM-154s are not too many...Overall, these weapons are not overlapping in the capability but covering wide range of targetting and weapon selection options...Very long range 200km+ SLAM-ER, 60km+ range for hard/soft targets JSOWs, 15km+ range hard/soft target JDAMs, for subminution WCMDs and anti-shipping AGM-84 HARPOONs are requested by TuAF... |
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Rocky_LC
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Posted: Sep 26, 2005 - 04:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 76
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Hi Elp -
Just wanted to keep you up to date:
JASSM - Canceled
Rocky
I certainly agree that there are many opportunities to do things better/faster/cheaper..... |
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elp
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Posted: Sep 29, 2005 - 04:17 AM
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F-16.net Editor
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 2848
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Rocky_LC wrote:
Hi Elp -
Just wanted to keep you up to date:
JASSM - Canceled
Rocky
I certainly agree that there are many opportunities to do things better/faster/cheaper.....
JAASM cancelled for who? |
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Rocky_LC
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Posted: Sep 29, 2005 - 05:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 21, 2004
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O.K. - Not 100% Cancelled.... Article from www.aviationnow.com
Two JASSMs Hit Target In Latest Test
09/02/2005 09:37:59 AM
By Magnus Bennett
Two Joint Air to Surface Standoff Missiles (JASSMs) hit their intended target after being launched from a B-52 bomber and flying their planned routes, according to a test summary released Sept. 1 by the U.S. Air Force.
"Both missiles separated from the B-52 aircraft, had nominal flights, and impacted the target as planned," the Air Force said. "Further analysis is required to score the shot accuracy."
The Aug. 31 tests occurred at White Sands Missile Range, N.M.
Prime contractor Lockheed Martin said the missiles went up against a "difficult target set [that] exceeds JASSM's design requirements," but the company declined to elaborate. The Air Force did not say what type of target was used. JASSM is designed mainly to destroy high-value, heavily defended targets on the ground, such as air defense sites and hardened bunkers.
Quote:
The stealthy cruise missile has now apparently been successful in all six of its flight-tests in July and August, potentially improving its prospects on Capitol Hill. A series of earlier tests, including several failures, prompted the House Appropriations Committee to vote in June to cancel the program. Those failures spurred Lockheed Martin to try to improve quality controls to increase the missile's reliability.
The Senate Appropriations Committee is expected to weigh in on JASSM's fate when Congress reconvenes this month.
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